I started a project a couple of months ago using cherry that was cut and air dried for about 1 1/2 years. When I planed the original boards used for the project, they came out a light pink in color. Due to time constraints, it sat in the shop for several months.
Now that I have gotten back to the project, the boards I planed recently are again a light pink in color, but the boards that were planed several months ago have darkened significantly. Sanding doesn’t seem to lighten them to the same color. Will bleaching work, and which should I use?
Is there any other way to lighten these boards to match the newly planed ones, or am I toast? My intention is to get them to match as closely as possible and then finish it with Danish Oil.
Any suggestions?
Thanks.
jc
Replies
Cherry naturally darkens over time. To get the light boards to match put them in the sun for a few hours. If you want to minimize darkening over time use a different wood.
Ben,
Thanks for the info. I knew that cherry darkened over time. I was just looking for a way to get all of the boards to about the same color before I put a finish on them. At the moment, the contrast is drastic.
I guess I need to put the newly milled into the sunlight and let them darken, rather than trying to lighten the old ones.
jc
jc, I may be telling you something you already know (if so, my apologies), but the cherry will continue to darken even after you put the finish on -- if that helps any.
DavidHmmm... the garden or the workshop today?
JC,
Listen to Ben. I don't think you realize how quickly newly milled cherry darkens in direct outside summer sun. A few hours, like Ben said, may even darken the new stuff considerably more than the old if the old has not been outdoors directly in the sunlight.
If you put a freshly milled cherry panel in noon sun with a hammer on top, you will see a perfect hammer when you remove it in 15 minutes.
Clampman
OK, so the hammer becomes perfect. What happens to the cherry?
Rich
That's what I figured. I was planning on doing some tests this weekend by putting them out for an hour or so to see what it would do. If that brings them close, that works for me.
Thanks to all for the help and confirmation. I feel a little better about the direction now.
jc
btw......what do you do with a board with a perfect hammer on it :-)
JC,
Sell it to the tourists. Tourists will buy horse paddies so long as they are attractively gift wrapped.
clampman
Better yet, put a clock on it. Then they will really snarf them up.
I knew cherry darkened over time, but did not realize that direct sun is so effective. I am building a sideboard of cherry. My wife wants it darkened. If I put it outside when complete, how dark can I get it? Do I need to do this before I apply a varnish oil finish?
S4S,
I would do it prior to applying a finish. I suspect that oxygen accelerates the process, though I don't know for sure. Make sure your sideboard is well ventilated on the bottom side and don't freak out when the sun causes a huge cup in your sideboard. Just flip it over once in a while to get it straightened back out.
Remember that even a water clear finish will make cherry appear darker, and that you can tint your finish as well to darken it up, assuming the sun does not darken it enough for you. You can wipe the cherry with lacquer thinner or mineral spirits for a preview of what it will look like finished clear.
Check the contents of the finish to make sure it it does not have UV blockers in it. They retard the continuing darkening of the cherry after it is finished.
Have fun,
Clampman
I found a good article on finishing cherry in FWW May/June 1998. It talks some about darkening when finishing as well.
Hope this helps.
jc
Be somewhat careful about putting it outside in direct sunlight for a long period. The heat can cause uneven moisture content in the exposed surfaces causing warping or racking. At the very least, be sure air can freely circulate under and inside of any item.
I am in Philadelphia area, meaning hot and humid in July and August. Would I be better to wait for a bright but somewhat cool (say 75 deg.) September/Oct. day? Or, is there simply too much risk.
The sidebaord is all solid stock. The bottom - drawer portion - is a solid carcase, 1/2 blind dovetailed, with the dividers in sliding dovetails, all with a view to not having it warp over time. What is the level of risk here? With all of the hours invested, my risk tolerance will be somewhat low.
Hey there s4s. I posted about this some time ago but thought you should be aware ,as one of the other poster mentioned, that putting your prized project in the sun for an hour may do a lot more than just a little cupping. Depending on the moisture content of your wood you could be in for a nasty surprise. Just because your wood came from a hardwood dealer and you were told it was kiln dried doesn't mean it's really dry. Sometimes these stacks of wood sit on truck and outdoors. Always check MC with a moisture meter to be sure. I've measured so called kiln dried wood to be as high as 10-11 percent. Not too bad but knowing the water content will give you a better idea of how to handle your wood. Sun will dramatically darken Cherry as you've already been told but there are risks to subjecting a unfinished project to direct sun. If you want a antique cherry color avoid staining with dye or whatever. I find these colors don't, to my eyes at least, look like natural aging. Nothing beats that beautiful color of an aged Cherry project but Potassium Dichromate comes a lot closer than stain. It's a chemical that reacts with the tannins in the woods to cause a darkening effect that quite nice. Not to say that a properly dyed project doesn't look nice just different. Let me know if your interested in knowing more about this.
I have used this on mahogany, with a great result. It was for exterior, french storm doors (3 pairs). I did it outside as this stuffis poisonous. But this piece is a sideboard, for the dining room, to hold food, silver, etc. I might be concerned about PC's poisonous character on a piece. No, we won't be eating fof of it, but there might be contact with a loaf of bread, for example. What do you think.
It would really depend on the type of finish you choose. An oil or shellac finish would probably make me a little unweary as well. Some sort of tougher film finish would probably be fine. Maybe use the shellac as a barrier coat and build on top of that. Depends on how you want it to look.
S4S,
I see you guys are still at it with the cherry, worrying that it is going to self destruct while it gets a tan. I don't recommend setting your top outside and forgetting about it, any more that you set a steak on the grill and forget about it for hours. I have seen the results of a forgotten cherry panel that was 27" wide and set out to darken. When I turned it over the middle of the panel was about 2 inches higher than the sides. It straightened out fine, though I have been more careful to flip them often since.
On most of the big cherry jobs I have done, I have bought the entire boules from Pennsylvania, restacked in the original sequence that they were cut. Since the narrowest of my boards generally average 20 inches in width and ranged up to 36 inches in width and since I generally buy at least a few spectacularly flamed boards at a premium price, I would have 500 bucks tied up in one board before I applied labor. Since neither Bill Groeff nor Jeff Hern are stupid enough to try to cut 4/4 boards from a 36 dia saw log, I was paying for 5/4 stock even if I only needed 4/4.
The heat buildup from a timesaver will cup a wide panel as it comes out the off feed table. Moisture content is the variable which determines how much. When my moisture meter with the lights got stolen, I bought a good one with a needle indicator.
Even stable as cherry is (after it has been air dried then properly kiln dried) a 24' wide board can be expected to shrink 5/16ths with a uniform change in moisture content from 11% to 6%. When the summer sun hits the top side of a board, it will cup. I assumed your piece was not built since you said you were building it. In which case you could flip the top over as often as you like, giving you sun dried cherry regardless of moisture content.
It is ironic that the first I worked in cherry was a stereo cabinet I built in 69,and until yesterday I had never stained a single scrap of cherry my entire life. Today I did- but it was garbage steam kilned stuff looking as much like maple as cherry. Nonetheless, I was not proud of myself.
Everything else, bartops, countertops, kitchen cabs, butler pantries,desks, entertainment centers,entry doors, interior doors, pocket doors , curved drawer faces, library paneling were all darkened by the sun.
If I can figure out how to do it, I'll attach a photo to demonstrate the real danger to sunbathing woodwork. Rain. That's why the crew is bringin one of the fireplace surround subassemblies back inside before it was done cooking. The following day, it went back out again. Although it may not have as much labor involved as in what you are doing, that fact that it takes 3 men to pick up and move says something about its value by virtue of the quantity of cherry involved.
I don't consider myself an execptionally lucky man, except for my daughter, and I have never had cherry self destruct or cause me any nasty surprises from the sun.
Clampman
I see we are in the same geographic area, as I too shop at Groff and Groff, and occ. at Hearne's. For this sideboard I bought (from Gofff) 8 planks, 12'long, 24 - 28" wide, 5/4, flitch cut. Needless to say, I have more than I need for this one sideboard, but my wife loves cherry, so it will not go to waste. Maybe I'll post a pix or two as it gets done enough to drive in public. The carcase sides are single width 18", and the top, already picked, will be 19 - 19 1/2" wide, single plank, depending upon the edge treatment I decide on. And, like you, I got a piece of 8/4 flame cherry to resaw and bookmatch veneer for the drawer fronts. This is my first period type of piece, so it is quite interesting.
On the feet, I decided to sue a flat bracket construction, with ball. I hadn't turned in a while so getting back to the lathe was fun.
Thanks for the advice.
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