Replies

1. 
   ring | May 31, 2007 04:04pm | #1

   Lee,

   I've successfully used 2-part bleach on maple after it has been glued to MDF substrate. I use a sparing amount, not flooding the piece. I always make up my own bleach but the storebought stuff should be the same. I never tried bleaching veneer before gluing - it's probably worth a try, but it just may buckle the veneer too much to be useful. Make sure you neutralize the bleach residue before going on to further finishing.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   mapleman | May 31, 2007 05:13pm | #2

   Hi David,

   Thanks for the tip. I thought regular bleach would work, but wasn't sure. By the way, what is the best thing to use to neutralize the bleach?

   Lee

1. 
   ring | May 31, 2007 06:27pm | #3

   I use household vinegar, diluted with an equal amount of water.  It's actually the caustic soda in the bleach mixture that needs to be neutralized, and the mildly acidic vinegar works well and is easily available.

    David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   sapwood | May 31, 2007 09:10pm | #4

   Additionally: White vinegar would be the logical choice for bleached wood. No point in putting color back in no matter how dilute.

2. 
   mapleman | May 31, 2007 09:10pm | #5

   Hi David,

   Thanks, I'll give that a try!

   Lee

2. 
   JohnWW | May 31, 2007 10:45pm | #6

   Your reply suggests that you think that the first answer refers to ordinary laundry bleach, it does not.  The two part bleaches are chemically entirely different.

   John W.

1. 
   mapleman | Jun 01, 2007 07:15am | #7

   John,

   Good catch, I stand corrected. So, if I may ask, what exactly is and where can I get 2-part bleach? And what is the difference between 2-part bleach and commercially sold wood bleach?

   Thanks,

   Lee

   P.S. by the way, did you receive your package yet?

1. 
   ring | Jun 01, 2007 08:09am | #8

   Lee,

   From a chemical standpoint there are 2 very common bleach systems:

   1. Chlorine-based bleach, like the common laundry type

   2. Peroxide-based bleach, at the heart of what is termed "2-part" bleaches.  Aside from hydrogen peroxide these contain caustic soda.  The 2 parts are either applied one after the other or are mixed together at the last moment.  The chemical reaction between them lasts for a limited time only.

   Different wood species react differently to each bleach system and it's a matter of experience which will produce the better effect in a given situation. 

   As I wrote earlier, I buy chemicals from a supply house and prepare my own, but any decent paint supplier will carry 2-part bleach for wood.  Follow the instructions carefully, and use eye protection.

    David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

2. 
   JohnWW | Jun 02, 2007 12:27am | #13

   Lee,

   I did get the tape, sorry I didn't let you know right away, it's been hectic this week.  Haven't watched it yet.  If it is OK that I keep it, I'll send you some money, does $8 sound right?, for the tape and postage.

   I see that somebody else has already answered your question about where to get the commercial bleaches.  One of the two chemicals, probably the caustic part in the two part bleach, is very nasty to work with, protect your hands or you'll get burned.

   Thanks again, John 

3. 
   mapleman | Jun 02, 2007 07:01am | #15

   Hi John,

   Thanks for the bleach info. I will definitely protect the hands. I had been using Sherwin Williams catalyst for conversion varnish for quite some time without a care in the world until one of the guys at the commercial coatings store told me of someone who lost most of the vision in both eyes as a result of getting catalyst in his eyes. You sometimes take these things for granted.

   I sent you an private email concerning the tape, but yes, it is yours to keep.

   Cheers,

   Lee

2. 
   RMillard | Jun 01, 2007 12:23pm | #9

   Lee,

    

   I once bleached some veneer before gluing it down and it worked very well. I needed to remove the color before application, because of some inlay work, which prevented me from bleaching after the veneer was glued down. My concern was that the bleach would not remove the color deep enough and any scraping/sanding would reveal the original color. The two part bleach was able to penetrate the full thickness of the veneer when applied in a soaking coat from both sides..

   Rob Millard

   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

1. 
   mapleman | Jun 01, 2007 09:28pm | #12

   Rob,

   did you have any issues with the veneer curling when you applied the bleach? I would prefer to apply before hand, like you mentioned, however I am concerned about the veneer curling up like a pringle when the liquid hits it ;)

   Lee

1. 
   RMillard | Jun 02, 2007 01:07am | #14

   Lee,

   I bleached a pretty straight grained veneer, so it did not curl up (I'm guessing that doing both sides made it remain flat). If it had curled, I would have just treated like any other wavy veneer and pressed it flat.

   Rob Millard

   http://www.americanfederalperiod.com

2. 
   EarlKelly | Jun 02, 2007 02:42pm | #16

   Lee, I don't know if you're aware of this,but quilted Maple is available already bleached snow white. Use a white urea resin glue to lay it up. When you do get ready for finish, I would only use a CAB laq, WW conversion varnish or water based finish to preserve the color and show no ambering. Also be careful about placing the piece where a lot of sunlight can hit it. The sun will dramatically speed up any change in color.EarlFurniture...the Art of a FurnitureMaker

1. 
   mapleman | Jun 02, 2007 05:59pm | #17

   Hi Earl,

   Thanks for the info. I have seen bleached maple before, however I obtained some of the nicest quilt I have ever seen in my life, and it has a sort of tan/red cast to it consistently all over the sheets.

   As to the finish, WW Conv. Varnish it will be. I use that on all of my kitchen cabinets, so I have plenty on hand at all times, and I like the high build you get with few coats.

   Have you ever tried using conv varnish and then rubbing out the finish?

   Lee

1. 
   EarlKelly | Jun 02, 2007 07:48pm | #18

   Lee, I haven't rubbed out conv varnish yet. In the next couple of months I will find out how it is. I have 2 pieces that will be rubbed and buffed out to a high gloss. Most everything I've used it on before were cabinets that didn't need rubbing out. A good spray job with no dust really does give a nice feeling finish straight off the gun with CV. EarlFurniture...the Art of a FurnitureMaker

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Jun 01, 2007 05:51pm | #10

   There are three bleaches used in woodworking and they are each used for a different purpose.

   A chlorine bleach (Clorox or a swimming pool chlorine) is used to remove the color from a dye stain.

   Oxalic Acid is used to remove mineral stains (black marks from metals and black water stains).

   Two Part A/B bleach which is used to remove the natural color from wood.

   The last two bleaches are generally available from any real paint store or a woodworking store.

   Be careful though, depending on the adhesive that is used to attach the veneer, bleaches could cause some adherence problems.

   Howie.........

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/1/2007 10:53 am ET by HowardAcheson

1. 
   mapleman | Jun 01, 2007 09:26pm | #11

   David, Rob, and Howard,

   Thanks for setting me straight! I appreciate the help.

   Lee

4. 
   owenmike | Sep 01, 2014 12:18pm | #19

   bleaching veneers

   I am about to bleach some  mahogany veneers that are glued to its carcass.............so the veneers do not peel off or bubble or melt the glue,  how long must I let the bleach bleach before I nuetralise  it with vinegar?

5. 
   owenmike | Sep 01, 2014 12:19pm | #20

   bleaching veneers

   I am about to bleach some  mahogany veneers that are glued to its carcass.............so the veneers do not peel off or bubble or melt the glue,  how long must I let the bleach bleach before I nuetralise  it with vinegar?