Replies

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 17, 2006 08:55pm | #1

   The difficulty you have is deciding what colour to make the stopping. You are using cherry which is very photoreactive and also is very much affected by oxidation. This means it gets darker on exposure to UV rays and to air.

   Adjusting the colour of the stopping is easy. You can blend colours of the same type, e.g., blend one water based stopping with another water based stopping (most safely from the same manufacturer.) Another method is to use inert pigments to adjust the colour. The inert pigments come in powder form and you simply add these to the stopping you've got. If the mix gets too stiff add some of the appropriate solvent-- water, to water based stopping and white spirits (mineral spirits) to oil based stopping.

   UTC's (universal tinting colours) can be mixed in with any type of stopping whatever the solvent it's carried in. Water based powder paint can be added to water based stopping.

   As I said at the beginning, your difficulty is what colour to make the stopping. If you make it to match the colour of freshly prepped polish ready cherry that usually has a light honey or salmony pink hue to it, it will be too pale within even a few months. If you make the stopping a darker richer red which is what the cherry will age to over a period of years, the question is, how dark? If you make it fairly dark the stopping will show for perhaps 3- 6 years as too dark, then be the right colour for a few years and finally be too light--- you get the general idea.

   A similar problem occurs when using sapwood in cherry. It can be dyed to match the heartwood but, again, what do you dye it to to match the heartwood at a specific age?

   My suggestion is to make your stopping somewhat darker than the freshly prepared wood but not too dark. Fifteen years or more from now most people will simply admire the natural patina that's developed and probably won't notice the bits of stopping. And you'll have moved on too so it probably won't matter to you much, ha, ha-- ha, ha, ha. Slainte.

   Richard Jones Furniture

2. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 18, 2006 10:47am | #2

   Brian, I suppose I should have said in my first response to use the stopping (wood filler) you mix up after you've applied your first or, perhaps, your second coat of finish.

   If you fill the holes prior to putting any finish on and then level the stuff off you will almost certainly find the stopping has smeared around on the bare wood quite some way beyond the limits of the hole. If you fail to completely remove the stopping from the bare wood there's a very good chance that it will grin up at you as a discoloured patch a little like glue does if you fail to remove it out of the corners of joints. This effect is more pronounced on open pored woods like oak and ash than it is on fine grained woods like maple, beech and cherry.

   The coat or two of finish seal the wood and make it easier to remove excess filler (or glue) residue. It sounds from your description as if you plan to mix up varnish, linseed oil (or pure tung oil) and white spirits to make a soft long oil type of varnish, so this stuff will produce a protective film, albeit a weak'ish one, that will create the barrier I described.

   Why not, incidentally, drop the oil out of your mix and simply thin out an interior varnish with white spirits (mineralised spirits) and wipe this on? It's tougher and more protective for interior use than the softer modified varnish mix you propose. Slainte.

   Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   hdgis1 | Jun 19, 2006 02:55pm | #3

   liquid hide glue and fine dust from the wood your sanding. Remember that any natural binder such as hide glue or fish glue is stainable.

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 19, 2006 10:34pm | #5

   True up to a point hdgis 1. Mentioning the glue and sawdust technique didn't occur to me as I was concentrating on answering Brians question in general terms relating to tinting a proprietary canned filler from Rockler. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

1. 
   hdgis1 | Jun 20, 2006 02:24am | #6

   and which point would that be?

1. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 20, 2006 04:18am | #7

   Matching stainability. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

2. 
   hdgis1 | Jun 20, 2006 06:01pm | #8

   arent matching and stainability two different things?pretty hard to beat the match your gonna get from sawdust. Id say there isnt much problem with the stainability thing either. Dont all these commercial fillers depend upon some plasticizing agent to harden? Im a little confused about that point still...

3. 
   SgianDubh | Jun 20, 2006 10:00pm | #9

   The glue used to bind the sawdust together in the hole doesn't always take dye or stain the same as the surrounding wood. For that matter the sawdust can have a different appearance too. Usually these characteristics are not insurmountable . Grain can be painted in and adjustments made to the colour using things like shellac plus pigments and/or dye.

   In the sense that water is the plasticising agent in water based stopping and oil or spirit based solvents are used in solvent spirit based stopping or wood filler then, yes, their evaporation allows the solids to harden. I'm not sure I can see where you're going with that particular point. 

   As I said before, I was answering Brians specific question and it never occurred to me mention the glue and sawdust trick. I did rather wonder why you addressed your tip on that technique to me instead of Brian? I didn't ask how to fill holes in wood and get the patch to blend using the canned commercial wood stopping he'd got but, he did, and he could use your suggestion along with tips you have on how to deal with any colouring up techniques needed. Slainte.Richard Jones Furniture

4. 
   hdgis1 | Jun 21, 2006 01:35am | #10

   Yes thanks. Im sure he read all of this. Sorry i hit your reply button. In any case, as for filling tearout - not a good idea. Smooth it out. As for filling nail holes, Ill stick with the hide glue (read natural glue). Just doesnt even make sense to use the commercial fillers unless your building a blanket chest for sister Susy. Thanks for all of the information though. Next time Im looking to spend hours matching that stuff Ill refer back to here.

3. 
   jackplane | Jun 19, 2006 08:17pm | #4

   It's best to sand/remove the planer marks if possible.

   No commercial filler I've ever used will hide or blend in well enough to fool a trained eye, or a discerning customer. It may be best to forgo the filler entirely. And though cherry will darken with age a poly finish (exterior) with a UV blocker will greatly retard that action.