Does everyone have any experience working with or teaching blind woodworkers? Are there any specialized learning materials available?
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Hi Larry... Some people with VERY limited sight are classified as 'blind'. If you are working with this group, bright task lighting and magic marker lines to give high contrast markings will work. Many years ago I had a student in that condition. A very bright light aimed at the blade/wood contact point and he wes good to go with a scroll saw. Yes, I did a bit of modification on the blade safety guard so there was almost no chance of him cutting his fingers. You might also want to check with 'The Lighthouse For The Blind' and see if they can give you some hints on working with this special group. They had (have?) tape measures with very large numbers and markings, braile rulers and a whole bunch of other goodies that may be of use to you. SawdustSteve
This is a tota loss of eyesight -- no visibility whatever -- I'll try Lighthouse for teaching methods
http://blindwoodworker.com/
Found this and other related subjects with a google search.
Used the term blind woodworker. Try that and other phrases and you will find what you seek.
Now why didn't I think of that!!!!!
Now why didn't I think of that!!!!!Ya like MOST of us Humans.. Ya never thing till it's to late...Just a thought.. Do what the other post said on that link...You did not state exactly what you are doing or why.. Just a thought... If you know somebody that is 'blind' that wants to do woodworking .. ASK HIM/HER what they would need or want..I'm sure they are very aware of the dangers.. They do it everyday of their life...Maybe take one or several to your shop or the one you will use so they can 'see' in their terms what it's all about..Just me though and what I would do..I couldn't't do it.. I'd be worried sick.. But give it a try if that is what you want to do..Happy sawing to you all...
I had an uncle who was blinded in WWII. He had a shop in the basement and enjoyed making furniture. It drove my aunt up the wall that he would be working down there with the lights off and in total darkness. I never could quite figure that out!
I knew a sighted person who used to teach music (guitar) to the blind. He'd walk into a lesson room and say, "Lets get some lights on in here." The students of cource, didn't care.Joke he liked to tell:
He was also deaf in one ear so he worked at the school for the deaf part time :-)MarkVisit my woodworking blog Dust Maker
Search the Knots archives. There were some threads on this subject a year or so ago.
I know the liberals would get all wound up over this statement...but. There are some things that some people just shouldn't do. Epilectic surgons and blind wood workers come to mind. Of course wwing has many facets and I think that vision impaired individuals could safely carve wood, but running a saw? Certinly blind proof gaurds could be devised (or already have) but is that really wise?
Just my thoughts,
Mike
There doesn't appear to be much of a safety problem with bling woodworkers as far as I know. It may well be that they have a much better safety record than sighted woodworkers.
Edited 9/15/2005 11:34 pm ET by DonfromUtah
Mike.. I sort of agree.. BUT try and tell anybody 'THEY' can't do it..
Never works...
One doesn't have to be a political liberal to take offense at your statemant...just a human.
Thanks for expressing my thoughts. I decided not to comment the when I first read his post because I didn't want to start another liberal/conservative bashing series but Mudman's comment's perpetuate sterotypes thoughtlessly and inaccurately assigned to persons with impairments.
Edited 9/18/2005 10:55 am ET by DougF
First of all I am not insensitive to those with special needs. I have a bachelors in Social work and lack only a couple hundred hours practicum for my masters , have worked in the Scotish Rites medical system (specializing in handycapped children), I am a LCDC (Licensed Chemical Dependancy Counselor), and a recovering alcholic with 9 years of sobriety (alcholism is considered a disability).My wife is a practicing Physical Therapist (she has an advanced masters degree in Manual Therapy from a prestegious university in Norway that is equivelant to a Doctorate) she teaches soldiers returning from Iraq how to walk after their leg or legs have been blown off, as well as all sorts of disabilities and ailments. And I am around these individuals all the time both personaly and profesionaly. I have worked as a guide for outward bound type programs for children having disabilities, mostly Ceriabal Palsy and Downs. I never worked directly with the blind although as a social work case manager I was involved with their needs during their stay in our hospital. And in school vision impairment was discussed in some detail.
One of my good rock climbing friends is a guide (as am I) and he had worked with the blind before and we discussed the challenges in depth, (an interesting observation was that the vision impaired often have tremendous fear of heights). Although my training helps my understand that it is not technically a fear of heights, but a fear of the unfamilular. The vision impaired are fearfull of being on unsteady footing, and rock climbing challenges this fear. Together we worked on a cirriculum for these individuals that we shared with a group in California who carried the torch so to speak and to this day have a sucessful program. I presented this cirriculum to the thesis panel for my Masters in Social Work, but they shot it down.
So when you say that "Mudman's comment's perpetuate sterotypes thoughtlessly and inaccurately assigned to persons with impairments." I understand WHY you think that. But I hope you can see that I have devoted my life to helping the dissabled and have an education that backs up my "opinions". What I stated is not only a steriotype but a fact. WWing is a dangerous hobby for all of us under the best of conditions, being vision impaired and working in a machine shop is an unnecessary risk. I would also never ever bring my physically dissabled clients (the children that we take onto Ropes courses and hiking) into my shop. They have NO business around those machines.
Would you encourage a blind relative to be a logger? How about an electronics repair technition? these jobs would certaintly be feasible....... but is it really a good idea? How about wood working, would you let your blind daughter use a jointer? Unless you have one you really can't answer that question.
Finally meet my one of my friends. She is 10 years old has CP, my wife taught her how to walk when the best doctors and surgeons said only radical (experimental) surgery might help (MIGHT). I then tought her how to rock climb. She will never be able to safely operate machinery though. That is my profesional opinion.
Please dont think I am a bad person for my opinions, nobody who knows me would accuse me of being insensitive. I am not one to expound on how much I give to the disabled comunity, in fact I dont believe I have ever mentioned any of this here before (except my social work training). But I can't imagine that there are many of you reading this post that have devoted the time and energy to these people that my wife and I have.
Also most of my friends consider me to be a liberal. heh heh.
Mike
Mike, Gord's post says it all.
Shure does.
I was at a mountain bike race in CO. and there was a double amputee (no legs) entered in the downhill event. There is also a one legged cross country MTB racer out there, and I believe he is in the Expert class! And I've seen in climbing mags stories of double amputees and blind individuals climbing 5-12 routes. This year a blind man climbed Everest (he wasn't the first). In my experience none of these activities (except summiting Everest) are more dangerous than wwing. But there are obviously exceptions to every rule or stereotype. One of the main functions of a Social Worker is job placement and carreer counseling. As horrible as it sounds, as profesionals we would never encourage a vision impaired client to persue a job in a machine shop. I worked with a local organization that placed learning disabled (mostly Downs) young people in jobs. Most of them are very high functioning (meaning that they are more capable than not). We had to quit placing them in automotive shops, construction jobs, and some wharehouse enviroments because the injury rates were too high. Certiantly there is a big difference between learning dissabled and vision impaired persons. But I believe that the learning disabled are safer in those enviroments.
Again, there are exceptions to every rule, as a two time felon drug addict alcholic I am one of them. I have seen the articles in wwing mags about blind carpinters and sculptors, and I am amazed. Dissabilities bring out the fighter in many of those afflicted. I have tremondous respect for Gord's tenacity. And if I were his case worker I would tell everyone I know about how amazing he is.
Happy wwing,
Mike
Larry,
For the past 5 years I have been teaching Manual Skills at the Alaska Center for the Blind and Visually Impaired. This includes teaching woodworking, as well as other crafts, to people who are blind ( legally blind as well as those who are not able to see light) and visually impaired . It has been an interesting job. There are many woodworking programs within state schools for blind, all over the US, as well as Veteran programs. I am not familiar with any specialized learning materials but I would be surprised if there were not any.
Talking about blind woodworkers is like talking about any woodworker. There are all kinds of skill levels and aptitude. Learning good work habits and technique is important for quality and safety. There are some specialized tools, but actually not many, mostly measuring tools.
If you have done much woodworking, and are paying attention, you will realize how much information is received through the fingers that our eyes cannot see so well. The roughness of a surface or the sharpness of an edge, for instance. Much of this we, as sighted woodworkers, do with out thinking about it.
What are you looking for or trying to do?
Lowell
Hey everybody,
One of my mentors when I was a kid was an old guy named Bob who'd been a carpenter his entire life. When I met Bob he was 90 years old and completely blind (went blind around 60), his blindness didn't stop him from building, everything in his house was of his own creation. He made a grandfather clock that was particularly beautiful. He did everything by touch, and made himself a brail tapemeasure / stick that he would use to rough everthing out. What surprised me was that the things he made were of excelent proportions, well designed pieces that a sighted woodworker would have been proud of. I was just a kid, but I would hang out in the shop with him and watch and chat. He and his wife gave me a job cutting the grass because Bob was doing too much damage to the yard on the ridem mower, yes, that's right, he drove the mower around the yard kamakazie style until he would hit something, then go off in another direction, it was quite comical to watch, and he had more fun than we did. Bob was a good example of what another poster said, tell him he couldn't do something, then watch him do it.
Take Care,
Brian
My friend is retired, lives in Ontario, Canada, has been blind since his teen years and has done a goodly amount of very skilled carpentry work like building his own house. He has developed basic woodworking skills on his own and wants to learn better skills. I see my role as explaining concepts to him from a woodworker's point of view and helping him to visualize what needs to be done for each technique so that he can expand his knowledge and skills. Since I live in Chicago, we do this over the telephone and by email.You can check out his work at woodcentral.com and search "In the workshop without vision".Thanks for your info.
Larry,
I checked out the article at Wood Central. Very nice work. With his "much more than basic" grasp of techniques I'm going to recommend contacting an other friend of mine who sounds exactly like your friend. He is doing home renovation, new home construction as well as furniture. I will talk to him and we can figure out how to get these two togeather. Both of these gentelmen have the talent, problem solving skills and attitude to enjoy themselves and make beautiful work. Too bad that you culd not be in the same room with your friend, long distance explaining can be a slow way to go. Like anything that requires high skill though there is always practice, practice, practice.
As I teach here at the Center for the Blind I use the wood lathe more and more. I did not notice any turned items in the article. I would recomend this tool and I have some tricks. It is just fun, quick results and produces great stuff. All good for what I teach, which is basically "confidence".
Later, Lowell
Well that's great news. Sure hope your friend is interested. I really appreciate your lead and encouragement. I've forwarded your response to Gordon.
Good Afternoon to each of you:
I am the blind friend that Larry Martin referred to earlier. I wish to thank each of you for your helpful comments. As Larry mentioned I have been into the wood working hobby for more than 40 years and in that time I have built many things from a house to a window box and most things in between. I have done a great many things such as climbing an 80 foot amateur radio tower to put up the antennas or Christmas lights. I have done a great many things which prior to loosing my vision I would have said were impossible for a blind person. Now I know better. A person, sighted or not, will do what he or she is able to do. Each person is very much an individual with skills and attributes only he or she can experience.
My point here is that blind persons, wheelchair bound persons, deaf people or any other minority group are not and should not be considered by any stereotype image. They are individuals. Until you have worked or socialized with one or more then you really don't know what he or she can do. I should not get on my horse but please understand that each of us like to be considered for ourselves and not by that damn stereotype label. Thanks again for your help to both Larry and myself. I really am interested in learning new and better techniques to fully enjoy my well equipped workshop. Well equipped! Why yes I operate fully a table saw, router, drill press, jointer, planner, sander, band saw, many hand power tools such as a circular saw and biscuit joiner not to mention the hand tools. See what I mean, i'm not a blind person, just a wood worker who can't see. Thanks again.
Gord M.
Brantford, Ontario
Hear, hear!You hit the nail squarely on the head!
Zerks:
I would love to have a lathe and the tools which go along with it but some years ago I had to make some concessions. Raising four daughters and lots of pets didn't leave lots of money for tools. I decided which way to go and have been content with my decision but that's not too say that if and when I win the lottery tomorrow I won't be the first person in line to buy the biggest and best lathe. Yes I would like to have one but money and room just don't permit. In fact when I suggest it my wife gives me a choice. If I get a lathe or anymore expensive tools then I will have to go. I think she means for good so I'm hanging on for now. I like eating.
Gord M.
Gordon,
Good choice. I have no investment in the woodturning business but it has been wonderful from a teaching perspective. There are allot of lathes that work well that are not expensive. ( used, small, etc.) As a side note we have just had a top end lathe purchased for the Blind Center here by one individual! He was so impressed with the quality and interesting production that he purchased the lathe outright!
Lowell
Check out message numer 30 in this thread. You may wish to respond directtly.
Hello Gord,
Greetings, you may have wondered where I went. Ron was traveling at first and than I was the one traveling so it has been awhile. The good news is that he is looking forward to talking with you and swapping ideas. He has been doing woodworking for awhile now and is quite accomplished. I'll let the two of you fill in the details. Below is the phone number and email address. He prefers the phone but I will let the two of you figure out the difference in cost. Have fun and let me know how this works out.
[email protected]
607-281-1442
Audious, Lowell
Good Morning Zerk:
Thank you very kindly for remembering this. To be truthful I had not. However I have Ron's e-mail address and phone number. I will try to send him off an e-mail this morning before my day gets under way. I'm afraid i'll be using the e-mail though. It's more economical than is the phone and I'm long winded. Again thank you and have a good day now.
Gord M.
Check out message number 30 from Ozzy in this thread. The two of you will have a great deal in common.
Late post but just a thought..
Blind wood workers.. I'd say a PERFECT place for that new SawStop cabinet saw.. If you have the money for it...
Hi, Larry,
I am a woodwork teacher at Quenn Alexandra College in Birmingham, England. The college is set up specifically for blind and visually impaired students, but actually has a large number of full or partially sighted folks with a number of other disabilities including downs, autism, deafness etc.
I have just read GORD2005's message, and I have enormous regard for the man. I think he hits it on the head when he tells what he has achieved. As woodworkers we achieve a great deal, but how many of us know folks who would kinda like to make things, but have the inate skills of a toilet seat? It matters not a jot if you are disabled (I am - I have spinal complaints and a replacement hip joint, both caused by playing rugby), but if you really WANT to learn how to do it.
Anyway. Off the high horse now. I use jigs as often as I can. I rarely trust them to use the dimension saw (tablesaw?), or the overhand planer (jointer, I think), or the bandsaw, but they use a number of others. In general the things we make are fairly simple, and often crude, but now and again I find one who really wants to be good at it. I had a guy called Reg. Reg is from Newcastle-on-Tyne, has a guide dog called Derby and lost his sight in his early twenties. He was fascinating to watch, understanding completely the nuances of using hand tools, even chisels.
I am also the owner of a 50 year old wooden sailing boat, and I read magazines about those too. A few years ago, they featured a blind boat builder. He remarked wistfully that he had not yet been commissioned to build a boat (and probably never will - newly built wooden boats in this country are as rare as rocking horse manure), but repaired them regularly. Jigs again. Set up splines of wood and clamped them to boards so he could plane them down, and all sorts of gags. A bloody good bloke!
I agree with a lot of response you have had, especially the one suggesting you ask them. Most will aspire to fairly simple stuff (just like the 'most' of sighted would-be woodworkers), but every now and then you will get one that makes your heart soar. Reg can cut half decent dovetails.
Come back to me if you want to discuss this further. And thanks to all those providing useful web addresses, etc - I am going to be busy!
Ozzy
Many thanks for your response. Gord and I are now working on a whirligig. He's got a good grasp on the mechanism for putting the whirligig into action and now I've rewritten the directions to explain how he can build it. I did a prototype first and now I'm expecting his whirligig of an outdoors man sawing wood to be a lot better than mine.Your note gave me a couple of good chuckles. I especially liked something being as rare as rocking horse manure!
Good Evening Ozzie:
Like Larry I certainly enjoy your comment, "as rare as rocking horse manure". I'm going to use that one some time soon.
I wish to thank you for your comments. It is alwasy good to hear how others are doing it. I have been blind for more than 42 years and was not aware of any colleges for visually impaired or blind students. Yes I'm aware of many schools for the visually impaired and blind which go up to grade 12 or so here in North America but not College. I know you have forms ther in England as apposed to our grades here in North America. I used to have a very good friend who live on the Isle Of Mann. He was a school Teacher for many years there and in Birghmanham I think it was as well. Anyway I've just got the call for dinner. I would like to converse with you more but I do not wish to tie up this discussion group with that kind of trivea. If you're willing I would like to get your e-mail address and we may talk more then. Again thank you for your comments. It does my heart good when I hear people talking common sense. Bet wishes to all.
Gord M.
Good to hear from you, Gord.
Yes, of course you can e-mail me direct, my id is [email protected]
I look forward to hearing from you.
Take care,
Ozzy
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