Replies

1. 
   Tao | Oct 31, 2003 04:19am | #1

   I am not familiar with John Goddard, but offhand I can think of three ways of building block fronts.  Bandsawn from thick stock, Built up like a brick wall from blocks of wood and bandsawed, or laminated from thin stock.

   If you bandsaw from thick stock, you will probably want to veneer the drawer fronts, because a lot of end grain will be showing in your fronts.

   If you build up the fronts, you will Definitely want to veneer the drawer fronts.

   If you laminate, you can incorporate a face veneer into your layup.  A vacuum press and UF glue are the easiest way I know for a small shop to make these.

   That's all that comes to mind at the moment.  Might want to check Joyce's Encyclopedia of Furniture Making.   He covers all those traditional techniques very well.

   Michael R.

1. 
   LeeGrindinger | Oct 31, 2003 04:58pm | #4

   Not familiar with John Goddard???

   Woodwiz, John Goddard and his father-in-law, Job Townsend, perfected the blockfront style in Rhode Island in the late 1700's. Goddard is credited with designing that oh, so exquisite shell that adorns the tops of the blockfronts although it was probably a collaboration between Goddard and Townsend. The Rhode Island School and Philadelphia School were based almost entirely on Goddard's and Townsend's work. The Philadelphia School slipped back heavily into the Queen Ann style as it evolved but began and never lost sight of Townsend's and Goddard's work. One such block front attributed to Goddard sold in auction for 23 million dollars a few years back.

   Yup, solid is the only proper way to do this design. As I recall, though, you're talking about 12/4 at a minimum and perhaps 14/4 stock to make these blockfronts.

   Rob's right, the material costs are really tiny when associated with the overall cost to produce furniture like this. A few hundred dollars is not worth consideration is what would be an eight to twenty thousand dollar piece, depending on the one you're building.

   Lee

1. 
   Tao | Nov 01, 2003 02:15am | #6

   Lee,

   Thank you, sir.  Another gap filled, or should I say exposed.  I really do need to learn more about individual American furniture makers and their contributions.  These days I'm fascinated by designers like Ruhlmann and Jean Michel Frank, maybe the last real contribution France made to the world.

   You know, there's no point in being ignorant unless you show it once in a while........

   Your'e absolutely right about material cost on a project like that.  If you're going to put in the time to do really good work, then you should honor ir with the best materials available.  The cost becomes trivial in comparison to the labor.

   Michael R.

   Edited 10/31/2003 8:56:38 PM ET by Woodwiz

1. 
   JeffKurtz | Nov 01, 2003 04:10pm | #8

   You know, there's no point in being ignorant unless you show it once in a while....

   Michael,

   Did you coin that line, or hear it elsewhere? I think it's fantastic!!!

   Jeff

1. 
   Tao | Nov 01, 2003 04:20pm | #9

   Can't take full credit for it.  I used to ride with a guy from West Virginia who said something similar.  He was full of little gems like that, but this one applied to me especially well.

   Michael R.

2. 
   LeeGrindinger | Nov 01, 2003 06:56pm | #10

   Oh, I think the french have played a vital role in furniture design. Without the French how would we know what any design taken to it's limit of absurdity would look like?

   Actually, French country, Provincial, done by the hacks in the woods who avoided the urban insanities like roccoco did some great stuff.

   I did a brief stint working on a few pieces for the Smithsonian. One of the jobs was replacing some missing carving from a couple of Louis IX chairs. From a craftsman's viewpoint they were cool but from an end user's viewpoint I'd have burned them, they sat poorly.

   I hope to never make you feel ignorant, Woodwiz, and my apologies if my post came across that way.

   Lee

3. 
   Tao | Nov 01, 2003 09:05pm | #11

   Heck no, Lee.  I was born ignorant and I'll die a little less ignorant.  I couldn't learn everything I want to know if I had three lifetimes.  Despite my best efforts, there are still huge gaps in what I know, even about my favorite subjects.  Making a living may have something to do with that.  Far from being embarassed, I'm grateful when anyone tells me something I didn't know - yet.

   At least there is a partial cure for ignorance.  Stupidity, now, that's a different matter.

   I agree with your opinions on 18th and 19th Century French furniture, but they did steal Jugendstil from the Germans and turn it into Art Nouveau, and the Deco designs of people like Frank and Ruhlmann are pretty interesting.  They have been very influential on modern furniture design, and Widdicomb Furniture in Grand Rapids knocked off several of Frank's better designs, using curly Maple instead of straw marquetry. They still haven't learned to design chairs that are both beautiful and practical, though.

   Do you know Don Williams at the Smithsonian?  He's a furniture conservator and a very interesting guy.

   Michael R.

   Edited 11/1/2003 6:46:48 PM ET by Woodwiz

4. 
   LeeGrindinger | Nov 02, 2003 05:41pm | #15

   Woodwiz, my brief stint working on Smithsonian pieces was close to fifteen years ago. Frankly, I don't remember any of the names.

   The information you seek is so specific that you'll need to find a taxonomist associated with the area you're concerned with. I have met the taxonomist Christies and Lloyds uses for authentication purposes when it comes to the mid-atlantic woodworkers in that period of time. It's pretty amazing how much he knows about the individuals making furniture back then. If you really want to persue this information get a hold of one of the persons at Christies that handles furniture and, tell them what you want and ask for a taxonomist's name. It probably won't be cheap.

   I am surprised you didn't come across Goddard in Nutting's Furniture Treasury, Goddard is Nutting's darling and in volume three discusses the Newport blockfronts at length.

   Lee

5. 
   Tao | Nov 02, 2003 08:29pm | #16

   I just have one and two.  Sounds like number three would be a good start. Never have run across it yet.  Never made a specific effort to acquire it, either.  Didn't know it had so much useful information in it.  I sort of presumed it went on chronologically to the post-federal periods, early industrial and early Victorian times, in which I haven't had very much interest.  So much for assumptions.

   Thanks for the info.

   Michael R

6. 
   LeeGrindinger | Nov 02, 2003 10:01pm | #17

   Volume three is mostly text. Nutting goes into detail about what makes a great piece, details are great. If you have the chance to acquire it do so. From a technical point of view it's the most valuable. One and two are mostly pics, three is mostly meat.

   lee

7. 
   Tao | Nov 02, 2003 10:15pm | #18

   Lee,

   Thanks again. It's on my list.

   The photos in one and two have been invaluable in helping to learn the stylistic elements of various periods as well as some of the construction details, but the "meat" you refer to will sure be helpful.

   Micahel R.

2. 
   jazzdogg | Nov 01, 2003 09:31pm | #12

   Woodwiz,

   Here are a few books you may enjoy:

   "American Furniture of the 18th Century" by Jeffrey P. Greene (Taunton Press)

   "The History of Furniture" by John Morley (Bullfinch)

   "Sotheby's Concise Encyclopedia of Furniture" Edited by Christopher Payne (Conran)

   Have fun,Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.

1. 
   Tao | Nov 01, 2003 11:59pm | #13

   Thanks Paul.  I have a well-used set of Nutting's Furniture Treasury and a bunch of "overview" books.    I am familiar with the styles of many of the major schools of the later 18th and early 19th Century such as Chippendale, Sheraton, Hepplewhite, etc.  I also have a superficial knowledge the major trends in English and American furniture from the 1600's through Victorian times. What I am lacking information about individual makers, their styles, techniques, and influences, especially in the Federal period.  Which of the books you suggested focuses best on that kind of info?

   I am particularly interested in details of design and joinery from maker to maker and region to region.  For example, I have a slightly mismatched set of Chippendale chairs in my shop, which were sold as period pieces.  I bought them cheap after they were in a fire and am restoring them as time allows.  They are obviously hand made, with pegged M&T joints and the mahogany wood is very tight and heavy, and there are no discernible tool marks that indicate a later date. But the corner blocks looked wrong, and the gimlet-point screws indicate a date later than 1840, making them most probably Centennial pieces.  There is no obvious sign that the corner blocks have been replaced, but what I would like to know is things like "How did New England chair makers do their corners in the 1760's?  Could these be period pieces with corner blocks added later? what should I be looking for as giveaways?"

   I also have a beautiful 1740's style Queen Anne side table in my home.  The one-board top, brasses, wood, finish, and joinery are all consistent with the style of the piece; it is in spectacularly good condition and beautifully made.  Perhaps the condition is a little too good.  I have seen museum pieces this clean, but almost all of the few 18th Century pieces I have worked on have pretty obvious signs of wear, some repairs, and a good deal of soot on the inside surfaces.   I am a little suspicious of this piece, and I wish I had a better feel of the subtleties of workmanship that differentiate a period piece from a faithful reproduction.

   Michael R

1. 
   Shep | Nov 02, 2003 12:54am | #14

   This thread caught my eye 'cause I also admire the Goddard-Townsend furniture. I own a wonderful book called " Master Craftsmen of Newport", by Michael Moses and published by MMI Americana Press, Tenafly, N.J. 07670. The copyright date is 1984, so I don't know if its still in print, but its well worth the search . It doesn't have any construction plans, but it does have numerous photos with overall dimensions and descriptions of the pieces, as well as info about the two families.

1. 
   mcafee7 | Nov 03, 2003 03:32am | #20

   Thanks for the feed back Shep.  I'll see if I can find the book.

2. 
   RMillard | Nov 03, 2003 02:39pm | #21

   Shep,

   I agree with you 100% on the Master Craftsman book. It is no longer in print and commands a huge price on the market. I sold mine on Ebay earlier this year for $800.00.I got rid of mine since I rarely make anything other than federal furniture and at the prices they go for it is only a matter of time, before it is reprinted or updated.

   Rob Millard

3. 
   Shep | Nov 03, 2003 09:41pm | #23

   Rob-- thanks for the update. Maybe I should think about selling my copy and buying more tools<G> lets see- a couple of Lie Nielson planes, a set of Shapton stones- nope, its still not enough for everything I want!

2. 
   Crunk | Oct 31, 2003 03:54pm | #2

   Traditionally, they were carved from solid stock (no surprise). 

3. 
   RMillard | Oct 31, 2003 04:39pm | #3

   Mac,

   I have not built any block front furniture, but I have made several serpentine pieces. In the coming year I have a customer that wants several Rhode Island pieces, and I will certainly use full thickness stock, there is really no other proper way to do it.

   I have seen several Boston pieces that were laminated from thin stock, but they suffer in appearance. Many times, pieces were laminated on the inside where the blocking left too thin an area, and this of course won’t effect the outward appearance. I believe this was done on the block front secretary shown in Jeffery Green’s book on 18^th Century Furniture.

   Making a block front piece is such a demanding and time consuming undertaking, that the last thing you’d want to do is skimp on materials ( both wood and hardware). Part of the appeal of Rhode Island furniture is the rich grain, and this calls for high quality thick stock. Some blocked pieces require 10/4 stock as the blocking is quite dramatic. so check this before starting.

   Rob Millard

4. 
   Floss | Nov 01, 2003 12:17am | #5

   Just a quick note. When sawing out of solid stock, if you choose this method of construction, make sure to leave some extra thickness on the ends of each drawer front on the inside of the drawer. Then you can plane these two inside faces into the same plane with one another before you dovetail the sides of the drawers. This way you can eliminate any twist in the drawers in case the fronts move after you saw out the shape.

1. 
   mcafee7 | Nov 03, 2003 03:25am | #19

   Good tip j.p. I'll do that.

5. 
   mcafee7 | Nov 01, 2003 02:41am | #7

   Thanks for all the good advise.  I knew I could count on you guys for some insight into the do's and dont's and as usual, you didn't dissapoint!  I'll go with the solid lumber, either mahogany or walnut.  I'm a little concerned about the visible endgrain but I'd rather not use veneer if I can avoid it.  I'll let you know how it comes out after the plans are drawn up, approved, and construction completed.

1. 
   RMillard | Nov 03, 2003 02:51pm | #22

   Mac,

   The endgrain problem can be avoided by sizing the piece with a mixture of liquid hide glue and distilled water ( 10 parts water to 1 part glue is about right), and using aniline dyes. This will result in a even color. Another way, and the one I plan to use is to spray the piece with a mixture of lime and water. This gives a brilliant red typical of the best Newport pieces, and also results in a even color. Whatever method you use, pop the grain with the Tried and True Danish oil, and not linseed oil. Linseed oil tends to overly darken endgrain. Buy your hardware from Londonderry Brasses, or the code 4 items from Whitechapel. These are cast in England from originals and while expensive are the best available. The only complaint I have about this hardware is the inconsistent aging they apply, so I buff the piece with steel wool and pumice using mineral oil as a lubricant. I sometimes pay more for hardware than wood on a project. Walnut was used only on early pieces from Newport and even then not very often.

   Rob Millard

1. 
   mcafee7 | Nov 04, 2003 04:17am | #24

   Rob, Thanks for the info. I generally use aniline dye on mahogany pieces I've done in the past, but I've never tried the lime and water technique.  I think I'll play around with it on some scrap pieces and see how it looks.  I also tend to over-spend on hardware but I figure, why get cheap with the hardware after putting in so much time on the woodworking.