Replies

1. 
   Pondfish | Feb 14, 2007 04:02pm | #1

   You might be planing in the wrong direction to the grain.  If you plane in the direction that the grain "dives down," so will your shavings--and you'll end up with tear out or a depp gouge.  Reverse the direction you are planing and see if that fixes it.

   Recommending the use of "Hide Signatures" option under "My Preferences" since 2005
2. 
   douglas2cats | Feb 14, 2007 05:40pm | #2

   I dont know as I do the "right" technique, but I would be doing this with the plane body on the box and skewing the plane at an angle while going away from the box not into it. That way you have the box sides establishing the plane that the tool is riding on. It sounds like you might be tipping it a bit? Also how heavy a cut is the iron set at?

   If you build it he will come.

1. 
   gcg | Feb 14, 2007 05:48pm | #3

   Thanks to both of you guys.  I guess I agree with what you are saying and the only reason I was going in towards the box is because I was worried going the other way may tear/break off the outside face of the tails.

   The plane was set for a very shallow cut.  As far as the grain "diving" I understand what you mean and it makes sense.  However, is that something that can be remedied with the tool in cases where you can only go one way or is it just the nature of the beast.

3. 
   Walnutz | Feb 14, 2007 06:36pm | #4

   Your technique is sound.  If you plane outside in, or towards the box, you will prevent tearout.  If you plane inside out, you risk tearing out the wood, and ripping off edge chunks, and ruining your chest. 

   I would check your setup.  You only need the lightest of cuts, and you should be getting end grain shavings, not sawdust.  If you're getting sawdust from endgrain planing, then your blade isn't sharp enough.  Also, check to make sure that your blade is parallel to the mouth, and not set deeper (crooked) on one side, causing it to gouge the work.  Give your blade a fresh honing, and try again on some scrap. Also, make sure that your cap iron is screwed down tight enough to not allow the blade to skew when it hits the harder maple.  You should be able to take a nice, even, fluffy shaving on the maple, and a similiar full width shaving on endgrain.

   Walnutz

4. 
   mike4244 | Feb 14, 2007 06:52pm | #5

   Was the iron parallel to the mouth of the plane? If it was skewed then the high edge may dig in.Many times the iron is set correctly but moves unintentionally. Sometimes the plane's parts are sloppily milled.You can download a parts list and sketch of your block plane.Check the fit of the frog,backlash on the adjustment screw etc.You may have to do a bit of filing and polishing to get the plane as perfect as possible.

   It's worth the trouble just to learn how your plane works.As far as the direction of the plane on the box,I also plane from the outside to the box.Your technique sounds correct,to easy to splinter a tail or pin working the other way.Take light shavings, stop when you are slightly proud of the pins.Finish with a card scraper or sandpaper.

   mike

5. 
   Samson | Feb 14, 2007 07:08pm | #6

   I know a lot of people like to use the block for this task, and it is indeed tradition, however, I find it often leads to headaches of one form or another - break-outs - scraps - gouges etc.  so I use a paring chisel making a swivel stroke with the back of the blade resting on the draw side.  If you need to plane further, get out a smoother or jointer for final clean-up.  Works better than a block for me, but as always, YMMV.

1. 
   ptu | Feb 14, 2007 09:01pm | #7

   I agree with Samson, a chisel will do as well as a plane, with out the grief.
   Pedro

6. 
   Rich14 | Feb 15, 2007 12:03am | #8

   gcg,

   Just to add my own thoughts to the growing list here.

   I agree that the basic technique you are using is good - planing into the body avoids the danger of tearout, chipping. But I think your blade is not sharp enough and you are using the wrong plane.

   A block plane offers no advantage over a standard bench plane in this application. There is some misunderstanding that a standard block plane is better at cutting end grain than a standard bench plane. It's not. The cutting angle is the same for the bevel up block plane as it is for the bevel down bench plane.

   Block planes are not made as well as good bench planes and can't hold the iron as firmly. If your blade is not razor sharp, it can easily flex in the skimpy block plane and dive into problem grain.

   A well tuned smoother with a very sharp blade should just "snick" through the end grain. The greater mass of the plane and it's rigid hold on the iron should carry it through the maple long grain without letting the iron dive into the grain, giving a very fine shaving.

   BTW, it doesn't much matter for a box, but for a drawer, cutting the dovetails so that the pins and tails are proud of the sides of the piece is the wrong way to do it. For both, doing it that way complicates the clamping a lot. For a drawer, it really complicates getting the width right.

   I like Ian Kirby's instructions which result in a construction leaving the ends of the pins below the outer sides of the piece, making glueup and clamping easy. The ends of the pins are the width of the piece and, after gluing, the outer surfaces are planed down to that reference surface.

   Rich

1. 
   gcg | Feb 15, 2007 01:34am | #9

   Thank you all,

   I guess I will go back and try to tune up the plane some more.  I also think I should probably fork over the $20 for a good Hock blade for the block as well as my smoother.

   As for the block, I always make sure that the blade is protruding evenly throught the mouth of the plane but then it is not square.  I figure an even is better and somewhere I heard it doesn't mater if its square.  Is this correct?

   I did give the smoother a try on this without very good results.  This too need a Hock blade but it has performed very well on face grain.  The one problem I have had with it, (which may be why it didn't work well on end grain) is that the mouth is always cloging.  I tuned as per David Charlesworth including filling the mouth of the plane to an angle.  I always try for the thinest shavings. The gap b/w the blade and the mouth is about 3/32. And the gap b/w the tip of the blade and the chip breaker is about 1/16th or a little less.

   One odd thing I should mention is that I did try using the block plane along the pins (parallel to the corner of the box) and it worked surprisingly well.  I know its all end grain but I thought perhaps the sole had a more consistent base to guide it.

   Again thanks and I welcome all the knowlegde.

2. 
   joinerswork | Feb 15, 2007 06:47pm | #10

   Hi Rich,

   It pains me to discover that I've been dovetailing drawers the "wrong way" all these years.  I'll make a couple points here then get out of the way.

   My Kirby's technique does not work for me for a couple reasons.  First, many of my drawers have lipped fronts, making planing to fit after assembly problematic.  Secondly, planing a drawer side after assembly is a pain for me, because typically, my drawer sides are fairly thin softwood, and tend to flex away from the blade,under the pressure of the plane.  I'm sure this could be overcome by using thicker stock, or a support of some kind that hangs out over the side of the bench, but...

   What I prefer to do, is allow the pins to stand a bit proud, just like the original poster has done.  If you size the drawer's front and back to allow for this, and set the marking guage accordingly when laying out the joints, you end up in the same place as you do after planing down the drawer sides to the pins, but with less effort, in my opinion.  I seldom find it necessary to clamp drawers together.  The fit of the dovetail joints holds things in place well enough after I've driven the joint closed.  I personally find that squaring up a drawer can be problematic, if I clamp it together.

   As they say, more'n one way to skin a cat.

   In regards to the original poster's problems, I like to ease the corner of the joint before planing or paring with chisel, as this helps with the problem of blowing out the end grain of the tails.  Also, pushing the plane perpendicular to the  grain of the side (in line with the pin ends), but having it angled in the direction of the grain's inclination, helps with tearout of the side.  And stopping short of actually digging in helps!

   Ray

1. 
   Rich14 | Feb 15, 2007 07:35pm | #11

   Ray,

   I never said there wasn't more than one way to skin a cat.

   Use whatever works best. If you listen to Kirby and Franz Klaus about workbenches, you'ld think they came from two different universes, and that the advice from one, if you believe the other, will end existence as we know it.

   Rich