A friend of mine is building a bar . the front panels and alot of the under cabinets are birch ply. they are to be stained, and i know birch can be very blotchy. i told him to use a pre-conditioner, or a gel stain. never stained birch ply but i know if he doesnt do some thing, its going to be a problem. p.s. it’s for a customer.he is already losing money on this job due to changes galore and add ons. the classic case of want it all but unwilling to pay. lets just say the block front, simple doors are now solid maple with glass. balking at the up pricing too. anyway, any advice for him? thanks guys!
oh yeah… she already bought waterbased stain. i told him its going to be a problem. i suggest gel over shellac washcoat or pre conditioner because its one less coat.its a big bar.
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Another question or two first. How light or dark is it supposed to be stained? Did he use cabinet grade birch, something like A-1 or is it more like paint grade C-2, or even perhaps import "grades" from a big box.
What kind of spray capabilities does your friend have? And, can this be pre-finished in the shop, short of touch up, before it is installed.
In addition to gathering advice from our experts here, he should take the time (and $$) to get at least one good finishing book in his library. It will pay for itself several times over! I know full well the feeling of being upside-down in a project (losing $$) -- now's the time to take a deep breath and commit to doing what it takes to get it done right.
Bob Flexner or Jeff Jewitt are the authors most recommended.
This advice seems obvious, but often is not followed: Do a complete run-through of the finishing steps on practice scraps before touching the actual project.
Next step, IMHO, is to review his business practices and take some steps to avoid getting trapped in a losing proposition with a temperamental client.
I agree with you on the pre-stain conditioner.
I would also suggest a spray application of a one-step stain-plus-poly finish. Spraying it makes it VERY even, and the use of the one-step product makes it rather quick and simple.
As to all of those change orders -- get them in writing, or at least have the customer initial your notes. And be sure that the initialed notes include estimated up-charges.
And one other note -- if the customer is demanding upgrades, and refusing upcharges, it is likely, in my opinion, that he/she will get to the end of the job and demand money off of the original price. And he/she will think and say almost anything to get it.
"Well since that's not really the color we decided on....."
"Well, that molding is not the profile that I would have picked..."
"Isn't this thig just a bit too tall?......."
"You should have told me that, with all of these changes, it was gonna look that bad............"
Prevent as much of this as you can by getting written approval, permission,buy-in,agreement on just about anything that will be visible once the project is done.
good advice from all. heres the kicker. i am a cabinet maker. he is a carpenter who does mostly moulding. he has some cabinet experience, but has a lot to learn. he just had wrist surgury and cant do any work. he was trying to get it done before his surgury, but it was waaaaay bigger than he originally told me when i agreed to help.he just had a baby and has to get it finished. so it's been 14 hour days for me untill it's done.it looks like plywood from asia( looks like baltic....but not even close in quality.) he is staining it in place.as for other problems, the customers dimensions were off. a size was agreed upon, and then as we went to assemble it, it was too tall....and too wide. an easy fix but...also 2 large cabinets for the bathroom that fill in where they took out the tub are too large to fit through the door because of a narrow hallway.aand then he tells me he also has a mantle to build.it was originally to help with the bartop and some design help.now i am stuck till it's done....i mean, he just had a baby. i am just worried that he underbid too much and wont have enough to pay me all i earn.well, i am off to finish the maple doors.at least they are turning out awesome.so , to recap...no spray....average ply....bottle of advil....
Bless you for being a good friend.
In light to medium tone colors, a wash coat of dewaxed shellac (about 1 lb. cut) or conditioner. Then a gel stain, being sure to wipe off excess. This will avoid most of the blotching and the expense of darkness, but will emphasize defects in the ply. My personal preference is for dye instead of the gel stain, and with even a lighter wash coat, but applying dye on site is REALLY messy. And, it would scare the heck out of the customer since until it is top coated it can really look awful. If a really dark color is called for you need to start with a dye on bare wood, then seal lightly, and use the gel stain. Since you can't spray, you can't really use a heavily toned finish, but you can use very lightly shaded top coat materials to build a little more depth and evenness.
It almost sounds like the customer has bought stain. If you you do NOT have to use it, you can find the same color, or have places like Sherwin Williams match the stain color in what ever brands you are comfortable with.
(I'd really, really, get a sign off on the finish from your tests on scrap BEFORE you assemble things in the house if possible, and for certain until you apply the first bit of finishing materials to the project. As YesMaaM said, customer changes are supposed to add to profit, only mistakes cut it.
By the way, oil based top coats are quite a bit more durable for bars, especially if you have to finish a bar top as well as cabinets.
Edited 3/4/2009 9:19 pm ET by SteveSchoene
ya.. i told him all this. except the dye. the bar top is laminate with maple edging. customers request.i didn't design any of it, but am improving it as best i can.he is learning. he has said many of the points already mentioned about things he needs to do next time. getting it in writing and have all changes approved was my first suggestion. thanks for the tips everyone. will pass them along.
mike
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