All, <!—-><!—-><!—->
I have a somewhat unique Blum hinge question I was hoping I could find the answer to (I have limited experience using euro hinges). I am making a pair of nightstands with double doors that are inset. All the Blum hinge specs I have seen show overlay and inset applications. My problem is that I need the doors to be recessed by 1/4″.<!—-><!—->
In my Blum charts, they show the inset doors flush with the case sides, but mine need to be 1/4″ back. To compound the problem, I desire a small reveal (less than 2mm) and, of course, I don’t want the door to bind/hit the case (obviously a trial application will be made before drilling on the real deal). <!—-> <!—->
My initial thought is to set-up using the reveal table and drilling distance for a 1″ (25.4mm) door, but then actually mount a 3/4″ (19mm) door. This would give me my needed setback and avoid binding. The problem is what hinge to use. It appears to me that there are only two choices. <!—-> <!—->
1. I could use the half-cranked 170 degree clip top hinge. This hinge appears to offer the promise of the smallest reveal (essentially very close to 0mm), at the expense of being bulky (I do not need 170 degree opening capability). The problem is the reveal table does not go out to a 1″ door, but it stops at 24mm. I guess I could wing it.<!—-> <!—->
2. I could use the full cranked clip top thick door hinge. The reveal table does go up to 1″ (I would get about a 1.7mm reveal) and the hinge is more compact. The reveal would be adequate, but I am worried about cutting it that close with respect to the reveal (solid wood construction and all). A binding door would be a bad thing.<!—-> <!—->
I called Woodworker’s Hardware and they referred me to Blum. Blum tech support pretty much echoes my thoughts, but they don’t have a specific recommendation and recommend a trial application. <!—-><!—->
I guess the point of this long ramble is: Has anyone had experience using Blum hinges and recessed inset doors? What hinge should I use (I cannot get the thick door hinge locally, so buying both and playing with them is somewhat cost-prohibitive). I am leaning toward the thick door hinge at this point in time due to the smaller bulk of the hinge, but am worried about cutting the reveal close enough without binding. Thanks, for listening to my long-winded post.
Replies
I do not quite understand why you want doors 1/4" recessed from the front. Doors are usually overlay or flush.
However you could move the back of the mounting plate 1/4" in further and then get a hinge that has a large clearance when it opens. Good luck finsing it though.
I have used Salice for years because they are all metal. They have a phone number at 1-800-222-9652. Their Email is [email protected]
gb93433,
Thanks, I'll check them out.
The recess is a stylistic element of the tables. Basically, the tables are closed on all sides and have 1.5" square legs. The sides are frame and panel and are set-back (in) 1/4" from the surface of the legs. The panel in the F&P side is also set back (as is typical with a panel). Thus, there is a series of setbacks, and I wish to continue this with the doors and drawer on the front. It's hard to describe, easier to draw, and easiest to take a picture, but I don't have a camera working.
K1500,
Blum inset hinges can be set back as far as you want, as long as the door is not too thick to operate properly when fully openned to 90 degrees. Simply attach the inset hinge to the 9MM mounting plate and place it on the side panel where you want the door to end up. Mark the hole locations thru the plate to the side panel, and your off to the races. Trying to figure it out from the catalog is far too confusing.
I agree with segil. about any inset working, You can close the gap on the sides by drilling the cup hole to the maximum distance from the edge, and then adjusting it out, I think that you are right about gaining some room by going with the thicker door hinge, But you don't need to be getting anything but the minimal swing degree, because the face of the door will be getting marred on the edge of the carcass openingIf you get the big goose-neck one, I am not so sure about the 9mm plate, that sounds a little high to me. I don't have the catalog anymore, because my distributor changed brands a couple of times since Blum. I think it should be some of the thinner ones.
I recently did my entire kitchen that way. I couldn't get quite 1/4", more like 3/16". You will find that the door will want to bind if it's too deep and too close. Like you I like a close fit, but I did a lot of compromising on this one. I didn't try Blum, I used Grass hinges.
Do a mock up it will show you what you can and cannot do.
I too agree with Segil and Keith. I've not atempted that aplication but I have used the thick door hinges and the door will not bind untill it hits the side of the opening, if that happens. If this is an importaint job (or even if it is not really) I would strongly recomend you mock it up. Use plywood and you dont have to make the door the same size nor do you need the opening. all you really need is a 3" wide piece of wood of the cabinet side and a piece (or assembly of) plywood to simulate the thickness of the door. To get the tight reveals you will need to get the cup location just right.
Mike
Pardon my spelling,
Mike
Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.
Blum makes what they call a "Profile Door Hinge" which is meant to deal with door thicknesses of about 30mm. I have used these on inlay doors of 1" (25mm) thickness. I never mounted as you want, but by looking at my mock-up I can see that your 1/4" inset would not be a problem. These hinges come only in 95 degree opening.
The Inserta version of the inset hinge is part number 71M9790. Use with 3mm mounting plates.
DR
Thanks for all the help. I will definitely mock one up before I drill on my tables. I really don't want to use the 170's (9mm is the only plate height listed). I think the thick door hinges will work, but I am going to try a mock up with cheaper 100 degree full cranked hinges. These are compact and will probably give me the reveal I want (and are the most restricted in terms of degree opening). If I am looking at the problem correctly, the limiting factor is not the door binding, rather it is the door hitting the side due to the inset. I think the 100 degree hinges will work. If not, I will try the thick door hinges.<!----><!----><!---->
Before I do either, I will take a look at the profile hinges as suggested by ring. Again, thanks all and keep the ideas coming. I will post my results when I get to them (it may be a while)!
Edited 8/29/2006 11:29 am ET by K1500
Another idea is to use the 107 degree clip to hings with the 86 degree angle restriction clip. This would provide only 86 degrees of opening, thus eliminating the possibility of the side hitting all together. Set-up with a 3/4 inch door, the min reveal is 1.2mm. Choices!
EDIT: I ended up ordering the 100 degree hinges. I will advise as to how they work (I think they will be fine). Thanks for sharing the hard earned wealth of your knowledge.<!----><!----><!---->
Edited 8/29/2006 1:59 pm ET by K1500
While your last post may work, if you have not done a mock-up yet, I would not back away from the thick door, or the one for molding. You have not told us enough to really be much help, which is always a little frustrating on this side, but the thick door hinge doesn't just pivot like a single pin hinge that pivots around a single axis. There are two arms on 4 pivot points, and the initial action as it opens is to move away from the side, so that that extra thickness which isn't there in your case won't bump into the edge. I really don't like having to deal with getting into a cabinet when a door only opens to 90º. I think the full cranked with the lowest mount will do what you want, and still give you at least 100º or maybe even 120º. If it is a piece that will be used a lot, I would surely try to go for that, rather than wishing you had forever-after.
Keith,<!----><!----><!---->
"you have not told us enough to really be much help" <!----><!---->
Let me know what other info you need, but I’ll take a stab at providing a bit more. The tables are a pair of bedside tables made to match a bed I made. The front of the tables will have a drawer with an arched bottom that sits above a set of double doors with an arched top. The two doors together will look a bit like the shape of a tombstone when closed (square with an arched top). Both the drawer front and doors will be in the same plane, which is recessed about 1/4" from the legs of the case. The case has 4 legs that are 1 1/2" square. The sides of the case are of frame and panel construction and are joined to the legs with a T&G type joint. The sides sit 1/4" back from the plane of the legs (i.e. they are recessed 1/4"). A drawing would help, but I don't have a scanner or the techno savvy to do one on the computer.<!----><!---->
I have a bit of fudge factor when it comes to the reveal and setback I need out of the doors. I could reduce the setback a bit and/or I could increase the reveal a bit if I needed to. I do not need more than a 100 degree opening, since one door will strike the bed if opened more than that. Behind the doors will be two shelves that will house magazines, books, and other odds and ends that end up on or next to a nightstand.<!----><!---->
My plan of attack is to mock it up with the 100 degree hinges, if they don't work it sounds like the thick door hinge will. It appears that a mock up will really show what works (no matter what hinge I selected, I was going to mock it up).<!----><!---->
If the 100 degree hinges do not work, I'll toss them into my hardware drawer and order the thick door hinges. Rest assured that I will not try to make them work if they appear unsuitable. I have learned long ago to not cut corners, since that's all I would see when looking at the piece (all the corners I cut). <!----><!---->
Again, thanks for taking the time to share your advice, I do appreciate it.<!----><!---->
That sounds good. I was wondering if there would be other limiting factors, like the bed etc. Think about showing us some photos when you finish.
God luck. K
I will try photos when I’m done. My wife has been badgering me for a digital camera and this is as good an excuse as any (plus, she deserves one for putting up with me)!<!----><!----><!---->
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