My question is one that many woodies would take for granted as an”everyone knows that”—but I don’t. When someone in FW magazine talks about the size of boards they are using in a project, they often don’t give the exact dimensions, like 2″x4″, but instead refer to 8/4, or 12/8 timber. Does this mean simply that the cross sectional ratio is 2:1 or 3:2, or are they talking about multiples of 1/4 inch dimensions? Or what…? Thanks. wig
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Replies
I think you mean 12/4 not 12/8.
In any case the first number is the number of quater inches in the rough thickness. 8/4 is 2" rough. 4/4" is 1" rough. About a quarter inch is lost in finishing. Less if you are careful.
4/4 is 1"thick
5/4 is 1 1/4" thick
6/4 is 1 1/2" thick
so on so on
remember thats rough cut plane to desired thickness
'
wig
Adding to what has already been stated, 4/4 would be called four quarter. 8/4, eight quarter, and so on. You won't hear it called four fourths very often, and the guy at the mill might look at you a little funny if you do call it that.
JC
Wig
One of my pet hates about FWW is the use of 4/4, 5/4 etc., I can only just tollerate inches (because I was bought up on them). It's just jargon & if you don't happen to live in North America it doesn't mean anything at all. The sooner you guys go metric the better & we'll all be on the same wavelength :-)
Don
Don, excuse my ignorance. How does the metric system delineate rough lumber dimensions? 3 cm? 5cm? 7cm? Is it that basic?
Thanks
Bill
Well, yes it's that simple but we use mm , a common cut is 52 mm . That is because you can easily get a 45mm planed out of it, which is a standard door thickness. In any case, it is always in mm of actual cut size. real simple. thin stock costs less ,32mm beech costs me 25% less than 52mm beech of the same grade of lumber.Stock of Macassar Ebony over 50 mm costs me twice as much as any thickness over that .
Philip
Thank you Philip,
I just didn't know how things were dimensioned across the waters, this helps alot.
Take care,
Bill
Bill,
Here we have the hang-over from imperial even tho its been 30years since conversion.
Dried rough sawn timber is sold in 26mm (1"), 32(1 1/4'), 38(1 1/2") 50(2") etc thicknesses by 75,100,125,150mm etc which roughly equate to 3,4,5,6".
Lengths usually follow the old foot increments converted to the nearest 0.3 of a metre eg 4' = roughly 1.2m, 8' - 2.4m, 12' - 3.6m, 20' - 6m etc.
A timber order would typically be for example 4/ 32x100x3.6 which you would read as 4 lgths of 1 1/4"x4"x12'.
At a wholesale level timber is costed at $ per cubic metre, but usually by the metre at retail.
So in answer to your question it is pretty basic & anyway the knarly old blokes at my yard consider themselves bilingual so I can oder 3.6m of 4x1 :-)
Don
Edited 12/27/2004 8:03 pm ET by Dondownunder
Don,
Thank you for the further clarification. Bilingual- ordering 3.6 m of
4x1, thanks funny:)I might be heading to Norway with my lady next spring, so the more familiar I become the better. Understanding is taking me while, but I'm getting it.Thanks again,
Bill
Hello Don,
Exactly how is metric jargon better than inch/feet jargon? End of the day, jargon is lingo adopted by folks with common interests to speed up their communication. It's all confusing till you get the hang of it. I'm just as irritated when a drawing is in cm's instead of in's, because it's unfamiliar to me, besides, I'm old now, and set in my ways. The rest of you will just have to cope ;?)))
Regards,
Ray
Ray
The problem with jargon that is regional such as 4/4, 6/4 etc is that it takes a bit of getting used to when not used every day. Now you can call me slow but I've been subscribing to FWW since issue 98 & it was only when I got hooked on this board about 3 years ago that I found out what 4/4 meant. What I'm getting at is that I'm not against you guys going to your local yard & talking all the fractions you want but as FWW has been international for a long time why not just call an inch an inch for the benefit of readers not in North America.
'besides, I'm old now, and set in my ways. The rest of you will just have to cope ;?)))'
So am I :-)
Regards,
Don
I'm with you Don. I started in imperial (feet and inches) and mid-career was converted when New Zealand went metric (money and measurement), and find millimetres and metres much easier to use. As for 4/4, 8/4 and all that North American stuff, not to mention board feet ... none of it means a thing to me!
Malcolm
New Zealand | New Thinking
Edited 12/27/2004 5:47 am ET by kiwimac
ok thats why your there and we're here
'
You multiply or divide by 2.54, simple. (Centimeters/inches, 2.54 cm/inch.)Leon Jester
Was born in Canada, and still live there. brought up in the old imperial measurement Switched to metric with a lot of comments when the country went metric. I now do almost all of my measurements in metric and find that it stops most mistakes when doubling sizes or dividing them in half. Most of the world is going to metric and there is very little that we can do to fight it. We might as well get on the old horse and ride it to the end, or get lost in the rush to deal with the rest of the world.
Tom B, One who is not so young either
The " lingo" we use depends on the type of lumber you are buying. We talk in quarters of an inch but sometimes we call them what they equal. If you went into Home Depot and asked the clerk for some eight quarter by four, you'd get a blank stare. Ask for two by fours and you're all set.
A carpenter, buying 1x4 (one by four) pine boards will expect the boards to be planed smooth and actually measure 3/4" thick x 3 1/2" wide. This is considered common building lumber. Most common lumber is know by the measurement it was before planing. 2x4 = 1 1/2"x3 1/2", above 6" you loose an extra 1/4" in width, 2x8 = 1 1/2"x7 1/4", 1x10 = 3/4"x9 1/4".
Just to confuse the issue, some materials are called 5/4 (five quarter). This means they were five, one quarters of an inch thick before planing. The actual size (nominal thickness) can vary from 7/8" to 1 1/8" depending on species or manufacturer. The width of five quarter boards are called and sized the same way as common lumber. To get a deck board that is one inch thick by five and one half inches wide, you would ask for, five quarter by six, 5/4 x 6. Don't say five quarters, just five quarter.
Half inch common lumber actually measures 1/2" and is called, half inch.
A cabinetmaker ordering 1x4 red oak, would ask for, four quarter by four. Until recently, hardwood lumber was sold in the rough and in random lengths and widths. We would purchase it by the "board foot" or square foot. If an order was placed for one thousand feet of four quarter, you would expect rough sawn lumber that measured one inch thick in a pile of random widths and perhaps random lengths. Today there are more options. You can go into HD and ask for, one by four by eight red oak. The clerk will point you to a stack of boards that are planed like common lumber. This is also known as D4S, dressed four sides. Other ways to order are; R4S, rough four sides - D1S, D2S, D3S. Whether the lumber is planed or not, we still call it four quarter, eight quarter, etc. At HD you still want to ask for, one by...., not four quarter by....
Of course, this is only the beginning. There can be ambiguous grading terms that vary from place to place or store to store: select, premium, stain grade. There are different grading systems for hardwood and soft wood lumber. Specifying plywood can be another confusing experience. Ply core, Nova core, rift sawn, plain sliced. A2, CDX, etc.
The Carpenters and Cabinetmakers Benevolent Job Security Administration has been slipping lately. Ordinary people are starting to understand the secret nomenclature. At least in some areas you still have to talk the talk before you can walk the walk.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I graduated from the NHLA Inspection school several years ago and graded hardwood lumber after that. So if you have any questions feel free to ask. All hardwood lumber is graded according to the amount of usable wood in certain cut sizes taking into account the surface measure in square feet. Each piece of hardwood lumber is tallied surface measure to the nearest square foot then multiplied by the thickness for the final tally. For example if a board measured 5-5/16" X 8' it would be tallied as 4'. If it measured 5-3/16 x 8' it would be tallied as 3'.
Most hardwood is graded according to the cutting unit method except 6' and 7' Walnut which is defect graded. Most softwood is defect graded and some is by appearance.
Most hardwood today is graded likke Select and Better or FASIF=FAS one face. Select is a select grade on one face and one common or better on the back. FAS1F is FAS on one face and one common or better on the back but will not make FAS. When hardwood is graded it is graded from the poor side except FAS1F and select. Sometimes FAS1F will be referred to 1FB=face and better.
When I was in grading school about 10% of the class were from other countries. Hardwood lumber is tallied surface measure times the rough thickness. When I was in Europe lumber was bought and sold by the cubic meter. A 2x4 was 50mm x 100mm.
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