Howdy
Wondering if any of y’all can help me make sense of this issue I ran into today.
Went to lumber yard for some 8/4 poplar to use as door material. Picked up a couple 12′ boards at 6-8″ wide.
Back at shop I chop down to 106″, flatten a face, joint an edge, and rip to 5″.
Post rip, these suckers are VERY twisted. Happened on both boards, one much worse, but other still pretty bad. I’m wondering what I can do to avoid this in the future. Bowing I can manage, but twist is awful. I don’t really have a good way to flatten them again. Guess I could build a torsion box for the thickness planer and use some wedges, but that’s a BIG box! This is gonna be a big door at 36 1/2″ x 101″ x 1 3/4″.
I’m gonna go back to the yard tomorrow for some more 8/4 poplar, only in the rough this time so I’ll have an extra quarter inch+ to play with. I’ll mill oversized before ripping, then put back on the jointer as needed. My fear is that I will get this twist again, which I can’t really think of how to remedy. Any advice? Wondering if this heat wave NY is in the last few days contributed. The inside of the shop I work in and the lumber yard are practically identical climates. Huge, hot, concrete boxes close to the river.
Thank ye in advance
Replies
I would buy from a different yard. If the poplar is from the same source it was probably a rush job in the kiln and you will have a similar result.
If you must buy from that yard rip it at the bandsaw before you do any milling so you have the maximum thickness to work with on each board at the start.
Ah yes! Smart! Bandsaw. That might be the ticket.
If I can get the rails flat enough to make the joinery (14mm domino) I think it’ll stay more or less flat considering I’m using 10” & 8” stiles and can leave it clamped to some cauls for a night or two.
MJ, I think I recall you being from NY as well. I don’t see there really being another option besides Rosenzweig. I do like Singh quite a bit but can’t lose the the time driving all the way to Far Rockaway. Then having to have them pull stacks, etc. Any recommendations? Driving out to Long Island isn’t really an option, but Staten Island could be.
In my experience, poplar is probably the worst wood for twisting. I have nearly stopped using it due to this.
I have been able to salvage a number of pieces on a sled through the planer, but it is a pain to do.
I agree, I have had similar experience with popular and I am very careful when and where I use it and always buy extra to allow for some loss. My local hardwood dealer carries quartersawn stock which is what I would use for doors if I had no other option. I personally would consider soft maple, white pine, or alder if they were available before poplar.
I will also always remember a conversation I had years ago with a engineer who's sole job was finding commercial uses for poplar and he related to me the number one challenge was the instability of poplar.
Potential energy (Internal stress) in the wood gets released when it's ripped. Just one reason to let wood acclimate to the shop for a week or so before doing any kind of processing. Better to have it twist a little before you start to mill it than after. I would also try a different supplier as MJ suggests
Ah, thanks for all the advice thus far. Looks like consensus is to skip the poplar. I’m thinking I’ll grab pine tomorrow. I’ve had similar issues when ripping maple in longer lengths as well. Fingers crossed on the pine. Door will be sealed, painted, and have large sheet of glass inset.
If you're having similar problems with Maple and other woods there is likely a problem with either your supplier, and their kiln drying process or your own processes.
You imply you take your wood straight from the yard to the saw, never a good practice. I always allow at least 2 weeks, longer for 8/4 stock, for wood to acclimate in my shop properly stacked and stickered. Anytime you cut immediately upon bringing wood into your shop you increase the risk of having unexpected, and sometimes costly consequences.
Good advice above. Sometimes the wood just does stuff that can't be helped. I sure as heck wouldn't buy more of that poplar in the near future.
Pine almost never goes wonky on me, but I'd wonder if it is hard enough for a door. White pine is a bunch softer than poplar, and would get a lot of surface dents in a door. Maple might be better. Of course, some pines are harder than poplar, so one of those would work.
As @John_C2 says, that's woodwork. Some boards just don't want to play nicely and are a nightmare. I had one bit of Rimu that looked beautiful but every attempt to cut it to a useful shape made it twist. I called it the 'Judas board' and cut it up for turning blanks in the end. NZ$200 of wood useless for the project. Hey ho.
Seconding the advice to rough dimension before milling.
Your boards have residual stress from something, could be drying or growth conditions. You can't get a dead soft anneal like you can with metal. I have never had an issue with poplar but did recently with hickory. Looked great at the lumber yard, bent by the time I got home. But in short sections it came out fine for my project. I have also had a good looking board pinch the table saw blade during a cut. It is just something that happens when you work with wood. I would recommend you look for a piece of wood that is as straight grain as possible, maybe rift or QS. Good luck...
Have you been to Condon Lumber in White Plains?
IMO its the lumber (specifically the tree), not the lumber yard, nor the kiln drying. Kiln drying improper can definitely do bad things like case hardening, but TMK all kiln drying does is unnaturally speed up the acclimation process and just as importantly, kills insects.
Trees that grow on a hill etc are prone to twisting grain as the tree adapts to the forces.
Get some nice flat, uncupped boards and start over.
Ah, yes. This all makes sense. I’m reasonably well versed in what to look for in the yard, and am typically a proponent of always allowing a lot of time for acclimation. But on these larger carpentry jobs I don’t always have that privilege. On my woodworking jobs ie small furniture its a nonnegotiable.
Picked up some rough sawn stock very close to the final width dimension, but much thicker. Plan is to joint an edge and run it through the planer on edge. Hoping this will go more smoothly.
Decided the knots in the pine would eventually show their ugly face and the client doesn’t want that. Selection of clear os dismal.
I hope I can report back in the positive.
MJ, I’m gonna look into Condon!
Quick update just in case it helps someone else down the line.
Ended up buying 10/4 poplar about 5 1/2” wide and 10’ long.
I needed 4 1/2” x 102” x 1 3/4”.
I cut length well oversized and did the rest of the dimensioning on the planer after getting an edge and face square. I was afraid ripping might introduce a lot of heat that would make things go funky. So worked in small increments on the planer. Took a bit longer but wasn’t that bad.
I checked periodically for any twist but the boards stayed dead flat.
Cut my joinery and glued everything up last night. Later today I’ll trim the door to length. Left all the doors stacked and clamped to some rigid steel until I can get back to them.
Thanks again for the advice
As with an wood I purchase I try to buy boards with rift grain. That said tension often occurs from either the wood drying process was to rapid, or crazy grain in the wood from the trees growth. Poplar rarely has tension from my experience in using it. Possibly a bad batch from the kiln.
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