Replies

1. 
   301 | Jul 12, 2004 02:38am | #1

   I have the Bosch 400 and can attest to it's fantastic design.  In fact I felt so good about it that I got rid of my big old Delta TS.  It is accurate, easy to set up and amazingly powerful.  As far as being pertable you don't need any wheels.  I think that the Rousseau base thing would get in the way.  If you want to move it you just grab the cut-outs on the top and pick it up.  The top is aluminum and the "base" is plastic so the whole thing weighs surprisingly little.  The FedEx guy carried it up the driveway on his shoulder!  Hang it on the wall to keep it out of trouble.  I orderd mine from Toolcrib (Amazon.com) and got free shipping, free outfeed support and a free folding base.  You just hold in the yellow handles on the base and it just folds up like a funeral parlor chair, yet it is very steady when in use.  I would reccomend you remove the blade guard/splitter assembly unit before you pick it up, otherwise it presses against your chest and you might bend it.  The blade guard has got to be the best in it's price range, very useable.  Order the zero clearence insert and the left-side support as well.  You will love the dust collection abilities (when used with a collector/vacuum).

   Make your own mitersaw stands, I think those things are grossly overpiced.  But that is just my opinion.  When you see those Rosseau products you will realize they are just particle board and plastic, you are a professional and can do as well (or better)! Right?

1. 
   OverKnight | Jul 12, 2004 11:53pm | #8

   I was interested in a wheeled stand for the Bosch because I'll be moving it up the stairs from my basement to outside to use it.  I'm recovering from a herniated disk in my neck, and there may be permanent limits on how much I'll be able to lift.  I need to keep dust out of my house as much as possible.  I'm ready to pull out the plastic for the Bosch, but maybe I'll hold on the Rousseau until I see the saw.

   Thanks for the advice.

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jul 13, 2004 04:31am | #9

   Re: wheeled stands for mitre saw.

   You might also check out the stand from Trojan. I bought one a few years ago, and I like it a lot.

   http://www.mytoolstore.com/trojan/troj03.html

2. 
   nikkiwood | Jul 13, 2004 04:41am | #10

   Herniated disk? That puts a different slant on things, expecially if you will have to lug a saw up the stairs every time you use it.

   I use my Bosch mainly for job site work -- which means carrying it from my van through the door to someplace on the first floor. I can manage that just fine, but I sure would not want to haul it up stairs on a regular basis.

   For going up stairs, I would think you probably want to buy the stand with the biggest wheels. I would also suggest taking some careful measurements of door ways, to be sure the saw will fit through (which was a real hassle with my friend's Ridgid on the Ridgid stand).

   Good luck.

3. 
   301 | Jul 13, 2004 05:29am | #11

   I still think you could make something better.  Something else about the Rousseau is the fact that those units  (used with a TS) provide additional table top surface but the beauty of either saws is the fact that the right side of the saw top slides out to provide an accurate station for the fence to mount on.  Look closely at the Rousseau catalog and see if I am correct in my assumption.  You can slide the fence 25" to the right of the blade on the Bosch and it is always 100% dead on evertime.

   Either of these saws might be too wide to fit through a door as per a Rousseau anyway.  I think you will need to make something creative so it will go up the stairs and then fit through a door.  Good Luck.

2. 
   nikkiwood | Jul 12, 2004 05:32am | #2

   I concur with el papa; the saw itself is very light weight and easy to carry. You can generally get the Bosch stand and the saw for $500.

   I know a trim carpenter, who bought the Ridgid saw/stand -- didn't much like the saw and had trouble maneuvering the stand through doorways. When he tried my Bosch, he returned the Ridgid and bought the Bosch set-up instead.

   When I originally acquired mine about three years ago, I thought I would eventually want a wheeled stand, but I found it just wasn't necessary. I did buy the accessory outfeed rack, which works fine on lumber up to 8'. If I am going to be working on anything longer, I bring along a cheap roller stand.

   RE: wheels on the Bosch stand. It would be easy enough to fix wheels with 1/2" axle, but I doubt if you will want to bother. It slides along very easily, and I think the wheels would just get in the way. The stand is very nicely engineered, and once you look at it, I think you will see why I say wheels won't add anything.

1. 
   OverKnight | Jul 12, 2004 11:47pm | #7

   Thanks, Nikkiwood.  I'm almost ready to pull out the plastic...

3. 
   jc21 | Jul 12, 2004 03:09pm | #3

   Wondered if you've looked at the Porter Cable 3812S? imho it is at least in the same class as the Bosch and DeWalt saws and definitely worth a look.

1. 
   OverKnight | Jul 12, 2004 11:22pm | #5

   Thanks for the suggestion.  I hadn't seen this saw until now.  It must be fairly new to the market.  Looks nice.  Do you have one?

   Edited 7/12/2004 4:45 pm ET by OVERKNIGHT

1. 
   jc21 | Jul 13, 2004 03:45pm | #13

   I do have a 3812S. I can't vouch for longevity- haven't had it long enough. It has soft start, an electric brake, and one thing the Bosch 4000 doesn't, a full size 3/4" t slot which allows it to accept a full size miter guage and aftermarket accessories like featherboards and tenoning jigs ........... and it's less $ to boot. Don't know how much portability you require but if I was going to spend $500 to $800 I'd be looking at contractor's saws with a mobile base. General International and Grizzly both have saws within than price range that are, imho, far more saw than any of the portable jobsite models. 

1. 
   add47 | Jul 15, 2004 01:33am | #16

   Sorry, some mis-information here...

   I have the Bosch 4000.  One reason I chose it was for the full 3/4" miter slot.

   I can and do use standard accessries such as the ones you mentioned.

1. 
   jc21 | Jul 15, 2004 09:05pm | #17

   I'll stand by my earlier post- the Bosch 4000 and (and the the DeWalt too) do not use a t style slot for the miter gauge and imho, it's a serious oversight in two otherwise fine machines, particularly if you do any real amount of crosscuting. Pull your miter gauge back past the table on the Bosch or DeWalt(not that uncommon with wide stock on these saws) and let go of it- it will fall to the ground and it won't with the PC or any new contractor or cabinet saw. At best it's inconvenient and at worst is can be dangerous. Pull miter gauge off any Delta or Powermatic full size saw and it will fit the  PC but not the Bosch or DeWalt- not until you take the disc off that fits in the t slot. These jobsite saws have roughly half the distance (6" vrs 12") front of the table to the blade and imho, having a t slot is pretty helpful during crosscuting.

2. 
   nikkiwood | Jul 16, 2004 01:14am | #18

   Re: T- Slot for mitre guage

   I don't doubt that the T-Slot mitre guages work well for you, but it is a matter of personal preference. And for most, I don't think it should be a "deal breaker" on buying a particular TS, although I understand why it might be for you.

   If a mitre guage has a disc for a t-slot, I take it off -- since that is my personal preference.

   I am not being critical here, just trying to suggest that when it comes to these machines, what is very important to one person is not at all a factor for another.

3. 
   OverKnight | Jul 17, 2004 12:00am | #19

   Thanks for the info, jc.  I've never used a table saw miter gauge with a T-slot, so I really don't know what I'm missing.  My late 60's-early 70's vintage 10" Craftsman doesn't have a T-slot.  In fact, one reason I'm replacing the Craftsman is because when I got it (used) it had been stored in a very damp basement, and the table had significant rust on it.  It cleaned up fairly well, but the miter slots are now too wide, and it's impossible to cut accurate angles with it.

   I decided to go with the Bosch TS4000.  The PC is a new saw, and I'd rather buy something that's been out for a while.

4. 
   OverKnight | Jul 24, 2004 05:29pm | #22

   I recently received the Bosch saw, and so far, I'm quite impressed.  No it doesn't have a T-slot, but as I'd said, I'd never used one before, so I don't know what I'm missing.  It's a little quiter than my old 10" Craftsman, is much smoother (much less vibration) and definitely has a lower current draw.  Weight-wise, I think it'll be managable to carry up and down the stairs, although I haven't lift it since I added the left and rear outfeed extension and blade guard, which probably add about 10 lbs.  I've also never used a saw with a blade guard; the one from the Craftsman was horrible, wasn't installed when I got the saw, and I quickly removed it.  This one looks pretty well-designed, although it may make it more difficult to carry the saw.  The miter gauge fits into the base, apparently securely enough to leave it there when carrying the saw.  The rip fence also has a storage spot on the base, but it isn't fastened to the base.  Everything except the rip fence was accurately aligned upon delivery, and it took all of three minutes to align that.

   The only concern I have is about the table itself.  It's obviously aluminum, but has a textured finish which I'm not crazy about, and appears to be easily scatched.  I don't know if there's a coating on the aluminum, or if it's the aluminum itself.  Since I have a bad habit of using my tablesaw as a workbench, my first "project" was to cut a piece of Masonite to fit the top, with some furring strips on the edges to hold it in place.  I tried fitting my 8" dado blade (wobble-type).  I had to remove the inner blade spacer to make it fit, which I wasn't crazy about doing, and at full-wobble, the blade contacts the blade lock handle; fortunately I discovered this before I turned it on.  Another 1/4" and it would be fine; I'll have to locate a hardened very flat 5/8" washer/spacer.  Speaking of blades, I've heard criticism of the Bosch blade; for the limited amount of cutting I've done, it was fine.  Another curious ommission is that there's no locking screws to hold the left outfeed extension support in place, as the rear has, but can be easily added.

   Also, el papa, you raised a very salient point about the size of door openings.  I bought a Delta miter saw stand for my Dewalt DW708 - http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages/?start=Start+Reading+%3E%3E - forgive the long url...  It barely fits through my 28" basement door.

   Edited 7/24/2004 2:48 pm ET by OVERKNIGHT

5. 
   301 | Jul 24, 2004 08:45pm | #23

   I am glad the saw met your expectations.  I would strongly suggest you remove the blade guard before carrying it.  I tried it once and found the guard pushing into my chest/stomach and forceing me to carry the saw at a bad angle that strained my back.  It is a little involved to remove the guard but you will get used to it once you do it a few times.  Adjusting that guard might seem a little "odd" as well but you will get used to it.  That is the best guard I have ever used on a saw, it works so well that I end up using it almost all of the time.  It makes me feel so much safer then the other saws I have used in the past.  In fact I feel very safe with the saw in general as I have never had any white-knuckle situations with it in the year and a half that I have owned it (knock on wood).  In that same time-frame it has never come out of adjustment either, still right on the money (my big-old Delta or Rockwell saws were never so reliable).

   The aluminum table does scratch pretty easily.  There are some scratches on mine that I just cannot account for but they have not affected the performance so far.  I always push my outfeed and side extensions in when not in use so I don't bang my sides into them so you likely won't miss the side set-screw.  If you miss the T-slot just make a cross-cut sled and it won't be as much of an issue.

   It really is a super-tool and I wish Bosch would get more positive publicity on this model.  I consider this tool to be more of a furniture maker's tool rather then a builders tool, which most "portable saws" are marketed as.

6. 
   OverKnight | Jul 24, 2004 09:49pm | #24

   Your wisdom and experience are greatly appreciated; I agree with everything you've said.  One question, though: what's a cross-cut sled?  I've heard of them, but I'm not sure exactly what they are or how to build one.

   Thanks again.

   Edited 7/24/2004 10:24 pm ET by OVERKNIGHT

7. 
   JohnH | Aug 10, 2006 02:01am | #26

   It's been two weeks and 301 hasn't responded to your question about a crosscut sled, so I'm jumping in. Go to your local library and check out their books on table saws; every such book I have shows a crosscut sled. Basically, it is a flat board with two runners that fit in the miter slots. The front and the back of the board are perpendicular to the blade and have vertical boards attached. Lay your stock along the back board and zip it through the blade. When carefully made, a crosscut sled is more accurate and safer than a miter gage. On my Bosch 4000, the miter sled is 48" wide, 24" deep and 4" tall; it cuts perpendicular to better than 0.001" per inch.

   Enjoy your Bosch. I love mine!

8. 
   add47 | Jul 17, 2004 12:11am | #20

   Apologies for misreading your post.  I missed the "t" part.  I sometimes wish I had the t feature for just the reason you mentioned. 

9. 
   jc21 | Jul 17, 2004 02:46pm | #21

   I looked long and hard at the Bosch, DeWalt, and PC saws and truthfully, I think you can't go wrong with any of 'em. They all have their strong and weak points. My 2 cents;DeWalt- best fence, Bosch- best motor, PC- t slot. My views on the t slot are form by years of messin' with a Makita 8 1/4" saw.

4. 
   forestgirl | Jul 12, 2004 09:21pm | #4

   Sounds like you've done some reading on the miter stands.  Can you pass along any pros/cons on the HTC stands??  TIA.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   OverKnight | Jul 12, 2004 11:44pm | #6

   I'm not familiar with the HTC stand.  I did a search on it and found it at Northern Tool.  They send me catalogs all the time; I surprised I never saw it before.

   Workbench Magazine did a review of eight miter saw stands in 10/2002.  I bought a .pdf file of the review for $5.00.  They liked the Ridgid and Delta.  They liked the Ridgid because it was well-made and could be assembled in ten minutes.  They also liked the Delta, which was a little lighter and had stop blocks; however, they said it took them two hours to assemble.  There are lots of reviews on Amazon about the Delta stand, but none on the Ridgid.  Amazon reviews of the Delta were mostly quite positive, with the negatives being poor quality hardware (many people replaced the bolts with better quality ones) and the boxes being damaged in shipping.

   Compared to the HTC stand, the Ridgid and Delta look bigger and heavier, and the have much larger wheels.

   Thanks for the suggestion.  I hope this was helpful.

1. 
   PatMcG | Jul 13, 2004 01:05pm | #12

   I bought the Ridgid a couple of months back and am happy with it. The thing is a tank - Virtually all steel, well made, stable, easy to use.

   It is a HEAVY pice of equipment but wheels easily, even with the saw attached. If you are looking for a stand to carry, or that will be loaded and unloaded from a truck every day, you may want to look elsewhere.

5. 
   ikor | Jul 13, 2004 05:33pm | #14

   General concensus over at BT is that the Makita is the lightest of all the small table saws. It will also cut a 4x4, is affordable and very reliable, but it does not come with a whole lot of extras. If you can make or get support tables that will work for you, it might be worth looking into.

   I have the Rigid and have been very pleased with it so far but have not used it hard. It is, for sure, a pretty hefty package for loading and unloading from the truck bed without ramps.

1. 
   JohnWW | Jul 13, 2004 06:27pm | #15

   A few of the comments lead me to think that some of the posters are confusing the easily portable Ridgid benchtop saw with the Ridgid contractors saw.  The Ridgid Model 3650 contractor's style saw is a nice machine but it weighs a couple of hundred pounds.  It does have a roll around base which makes moving it on smooth floors a pleasure but it isn't a practical saw to move up and down stairs.

   John W.

6. 
   GerryL | Aug 09, 2006 10:55pm | #25

   I sold an old 10 inch delta I had used for years to do light framing in remodeling work because I needed a precision saw to make furniture, Shaker Reproductions, mostly.  I have a bad back and have to watch how much and how often I lift, and I have limited space, all of which made a true contractors saw out of the question.

   I did a lot of homework and finally settled on the Bosch 4000 about a year ago because of smoothness, power, precision (nice fence, doesn't deflect and stays true) and relatively light weight.  I ordered the unit on line and it came with a folding stand (the one without the wheels) which I didn't want and sold because I made a stand for it that fits my space better and is a better height for me.  I slide the saw out from the wall each day to use and then back up against the wall after clean up.  Smooth as can be.

   I am extemely pleased with the Bosch and would highly recommend it.  I looked at the Rigid and I wouldn't put in the same class as the Bosch for precision if that is a factor for you.  As to weight, I believe you will find the Bosch lighter but because of design, and construction quality, just as durable and probably more so.  Don't buy the Rigid because of price alone, I've done it so many times and been sorry.  Sometimes it is a worthwhile trade off, but with a table saw, again if precision is a factor (and it is for anything other than framing) you will be glad you went with the Bosch.

   Gerry L