Brand New Freud Blade Stuck on Saw!
Last night I bought a Freud TK-906, my first foray into the upscale blade market, as it were. I was very much pleased with the preformance and the price. Superior to what I’m accustomed to both for ripping and crosscutting. BTW, it’s a Titanium Carbide blade.
Anyway, I’m in the habit of finger-tightening the arbor nut because I’ve had problems getting it off in the past. It must not have been tightened enough last night because when the saw turned on there was a loud *crunk!*. Suffice to say, I think the *crunk!* was the arbor nut jamming itself onto the arbor; it won’t come loose.
I tried wedging wood against the blade while turning the nut, but that dang sharp Freud cuts through it. Tried putting a screwdriver through a gullet while turning the nut and only succeeded in gouging the table. Lubed the nut with 3-in-1. Hammered the wrench, hammered the nut. Nothing.
Any ideas aside from cutting off the nut with a hacksaw?
Replies
"...I'm in the habit of finger-tightening the arbor..."
You're kidding right?
No. It's too hard to get off if I tighten it with the wrench. Maybe there's some trick to loosening them that I'm not aware of.
I Bet it went kercunk
Use a wrench just sung it up- screw the nut on as tight as you can with your fingers then just snug it down with your wrench . You were right you were tightening the nut to much and now not tight enough -YOU NEED TO USE THE WRENCH
Something you might try - put a box end wrench on the nut " I would lay something on top of the saw for the wrench to hit instead of the table top just cover the front on where the table insert goes"
Try to get the wrench that's on the nut " Box end" on the blade nut where its standing straight in the air and knock the living hell out of the wrench with a hammer in the direction the blade turns when its cutting.
This will jar the nut lose you may need to do this serval times
Wrenches will be a flyin
I use a sheet of 3/8" plywood and stick it under one of the gillets. I always tighten my blade nut with a wrench. Hand tight is only asking for trouble.
Scott C. Frankland
"This all could have been prevented if their parents had just used birth control"
Point well taken. I'll use the wrench to tighten from now on.
I suggest you get a nut splitter and crack the nut off - don't beat up your saw and new blade any more.
Gj13,
I hate when the sorta thing your describing happens...just eats time and frustration levels rise.
Anyhow, I did have a similar experience with the dado blades early on. As Scott suggested, the ply..in my case my plywood push stick..which has a nice curve to embrace both sides of the blade. Then I use the wrench and mallet..sharp blows. good luck..
gj13
I hand tighten an then take about about another 1/8 to 1/4 turn with the wrench. Too tight is not good either, IMO. Keep in mind that the nut turns the opposite direction of the blade. It has to be tight enough to secure the blade an eliminate any slippage, but not so tight that you will eventually marr a thread by excessive force to loosen it.
Corners nailed the nut splitter, IMO.
Good Luck...
sarge..jt
Only thing I can think of, short of the nut splitter, is to put some good penetrating oil on it. Go to an autoparts store and get some real good stuff, works much better then liquid wrench, about $5/can. Can't think of any brand names right now. Soak the area and let it sit for a few hours, then a wrench and mallet. A big 6 pt. socket with a breaker bar would be even better. Don't get carried away with the force you apply or you'll ruin your blade, or damage your arbor bearings.
If it doesn't loosen up quickly, just get the nut cutter, which won't be cheap for that size.
Good luck.
Is there any danger of the oil weakening the joint between the carbide teeth and the plate of the blade?
Let me ask the first question. Are you sure you are turning the nut the correct way? It's a counter clockwise thread unless it's a left tilt saw. Just had to ask as I have turned it incorrectly more than once.
As to "finger tight". The way that it is recommend by many is to grasp the blade between your fingers and tighen the nut with the wrench until the blade slips between your fingers. Do not use anything to wedge the blade. If the nut is too tight, it distorts the blade and leads to poor cuts. You will find this recommendation in table saw books and get the same advice from blade manufacturers.
What type of saw do your have?
It's a low-end Craftsman, and I suppose it's left tilt. Facing the saw the blade tilts left.
It's a left tilt saw but every craftsman saw I used has left hand threads. I personally have never used a contractor or cabinetsaw with anything but left hand threads on the arbor.Once you do remove the nut I would replace it. If new nut is hard to back off then the arbor threads may be cross threaded. Try running a die over the arbor if all else fails.
Mike
My Craftsman TS is rt hand threaded arbor just like my Powermatic 66. In fact they are more or less interchangeable.
BJGardening, cooking and woodworking in Southern Maryland
The oil won't do any harm to the blade, but it probably wont solve your problem either.
The simplest way to get the nut off with the least risk of damage to the arbor would be to back it off with an air impact wrench. Depending on the saw, it could probably be done with the wrench above the table and the arbor tilted at 45 degrees. If all else fails, remove the arbor assembly and take it to a auto shop to have the nut removed. No matter how you try to remove the nut, don't lose track of which way it turns to loosen, especially if the arbor is left hand threaded. I've seen guys spend all morning trying to turn a left hand nut the wrong way.
To be honest I don't quite see how the nut spinning tight under its own inertia could have jammed that hard. Something else may be wrong here, but I can't guess what it is.
Good Luck, John W.
John said: "To be honest I don't quite see how the nut spinning tight under its own inertia could have jammed that hard. Something else may be wrong here, but I can't guess what it is."
I agree here, and thought from the very first post that something might be wrong, because you've had problems with the nut jamming when doing anything except hand-tightening. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I hadn't considered that something might be wrong with the nut/arbor to cause the problems. Just assumed that the nut was working itself on too tightly. But now that I think of it, I don't have this problem with the circular saw.
I noticed last night that the end of the arbor has a hole in it. Is there some reason for this?
Uhhhh, I don't know about the hole. What shape is it? How big is it?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
It's a small hole. If you were to look at the arbor from the end it would look like a Lifesaver. Only with a much smaller hole than Lifesavers have. It's probably nothing.
Sheesh. I don't know. I think I'll get the ol' hacksaw out and start cutting.
It will jam if the nut is left very lose it will slam up tight as a button Ive seen it happen before. Not a good thing to do
Perhaps you can heat the nut with a torch that should be able to make the nut expand & then you can get it off..
ToolDoc
I think what happened is that when you started up the saw the blade spun on the arbor, grabbed hold of the nut and tightened it up till the blade was forced to catch up with the arbor. Considering the speed of the arbor and the weight of the blade it could exert quite a bit of force. The other issue of your nut being easily overtightened has compounded the problem. When you do get the nut off, spin it on the arbor without a blade on to see if it moves freely over to where the blade is supposed to sit. Are you missing a blade stabilizer/ washer that is supposed to be on there?
I have a saw that was misused by letting the blade spin on the arbor. This reduces the arbor dia. so when you put the blade on your saw it does not sit on the center of the arbor. It has a hop in the blade and half of your teeth are not working as hard as the other and the saw vibrates.
Do you know any good auto mechanics? This would be right up their alley.
"Are you missing a blade stabilizer/ washer that is supposed to be on there?" Great questions. Even if he isn't, adding one (once he gets the darned thing off) might help the situation, no?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Is this Freud blade by any chance a thin kerf blade - thin enough to slip into the arbor threads and not get to the flange? Tightening the nut in this case even lightly would create a jam. I have to be carefull of this when putting the 1/16 inch spacer in my Freud dado set.
Sure glad my unisaw has a second wrench position on the arbour behind the flange - makes blade changing a lot easier.
gj13
Do you have an arbor washer on both sides of the blade?
sarge..jt
gj13
I just went down an stared at my TS. A light bulb went on. Once upon a time I had a similar incident. I had finger tightened enough for the blade to turn on the arbor shaft, but it was not snug. You could not detect when it was turned on an up to speed. But it was loose.
When the stock I was ripping touched the teeth, the blade spun backwards or counter-clock-wise. It spun the arbor nut with it an it jammed. Now, you had just turned the saw on an was not cutting stock as I was.
Question? Did it happen imediately when you turned it on? If so, I suspect that a thin piece of stock had fallen through the stock insert hole which is much larger than a zero-tolerance insert. I have seen it on a few occasions with someone using the stock insert. If so, it jammed on the downward teeth in the front or rear rising teeth in the rear. It hit either the insert plate when it got there, or a component of the mechanizm you arbor is attached to. When it did, the blade spun counter clock-wise an so did the nut with high impact. This would have caused the nut to jam an possibly strip the threads. You had noted that you were already having trouble getting if off. Probably already had a marred thread causing the difficulty. I have a feeling the arbor shaft threads are now stripped an replacing may be an option.
This has bothered me to what the crunk was all day at work. There was some type of contact. If it had spun on it's own, I don't thing there would have been a "crunk". This is just a theory an hope I'm wrong about the arbor shaft threads being stripped at this point. Maybe it wasn't that bad.
Good luck...
sarge..jt
Looks like John already took the words out of my mouth, if you can get on the nut with an air impact or even one of the electric ones and make sure you have the wrench in the position to "remove the nut" Use a 6 point socket when doing this also, more contact with the nut and less of a chance rounding it off. Sounds almost like you may not even have a washer between the blade and the nut? I always use a block against the blade when I tighten or loosen the blade. You just don't want to lean into it and over tighten. Once you do remove I would for sure get a new nut and providing you have the washer face it on some wet-n dry sand paper top remove any burrs, or just purchase a new one with the nut. Make sure the threads on the shaft are OK before installing blade again.
Good luck
gj13, If you clamp a pair of 8" Vise Grip pliers to the blade (but avoiding any carbide teeth,) it will hold tightly as it rests on the table's top.
Now, with a tight fitting wrench hold the wrench in line with the blade and and on the nut, strike the handle of the wrench with a hammer (A nice sharp rap) in a anti clockwise rotation.
That will definitly loosen the most stubborn nut.
After you remove the nut and blade, examine the shaft/nut and blade with a magnifying glass to find any burrs or distortion.
These can be filed off lightly with a swiss pattern flat file.
The threads can be filed with a three corner file if distorted.
The nut is 'toast' so buy another.
A good way to prevent this happening again is to use two 'Jam' nuts in place of the regular nut .
You'll need two wrenches to wedge these thinner nuts to each other.
First block the blade with a stout hard wood block then tighten the first nut to the blade, but don't FORCE it on!
Then ,run the second nut on while the wrench is applied to the first nut, Hold that first nut from moving any tighter ,and turn the second nut with the other wrench to jam the nuts together. don't FORCE it on. Stein.
Success! Last night I flipped the saw upside down, got a long piece of plywood, braced it against the blade and took a couple whacks at the wrench. The wrench fell off. Stooped over, put the wrench back on. Took a couple whacks. Repeat as necessary. The nut popped loose as if nothing were wrong in the first place. Took the nut off, took the blade off, put the nut back on and spun it all the way in. No problems getting it on or off.
After I checked it out--there is a thin oval washer on side of the blade opposite the nut. If you can get down in there, a thin wrench can hold the oval nut in place, thereby holding the arbor steady, which then allows the dopey operator enough leverage to loosen over-tight arbor nuts.
Thanks for all the help.
Congrats! Now, I don't suppose that thin wrench is in a bag of "extra parts" somewhere....ROFL!!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Um....I prefer to not comment on that.
Is there a way of getting a wench behind the arbor? Most Delta table saws have two wenches, one for the nut and the other for a couple of flat spots behind the blade. I've seen this on most TSs, maybe there's a couple just in back of the blade on yours.
Just a thought, Good luck.
Paul
"Most Delta table saws have two wenches, one for the nut and the other for a couple of flat spots behind the blade."
I wish all table saws came with two lusty, buxom, accomodating, wenches like that, Paul. ha, ha. I think I'll put Delta on my desirable tools list. Performance of the machine? Who cares? Slainte.
<p href="http://r-gjones.laof.home.att.net/" Website
Oh My...! Did I write THAT!!
Paul
I'd first soak the nut and shaft for a couple of days with penetrating oil (which may do no good at all, but ya gotta try it). Then I'd go to the nearest woodworking store and get that plastic device sold to hold the blade from turning. Put the arbor all the way up without the insert and put a heat gun on high on the nut directly. You could use a torch, but a torch is pretty hot and may warp the blade or arbor.
Heat only the nut directly for a moment or two and try not to heat the shaft. Then, use a properly fitting box wrench (6 points preferred) and get the thing off. If it doesn't come off, take it to a machine repair shop or a good auto repair.
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