Replies

1. 
   ring | Dec 31, 2006 12:49pm | #1

   You can do without the pins altogether. Glue up the center 1/3 of the width and leave the outer thirds to move as they want. If your breadboard piece is a decent width it shouldn't bow away from the main portion. If you want to be really thorough about it, make the breadboard pieces with a slight concave bow which will always keep the unglued ends tight against the main portion.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   w_b | Dec 31, 2006 06:55pm | #2

   I hadn't though of putting a spring in the board. I might do that.
   Thanks.

2. 
   sapwood | Dec 31, 2006 09:35pm | #3

   Do you apply this 1/3 rule to only this table or to all. His table is rather narrow, 24", so that gives an 8" glue area. But if the table were twice that width, then the glue line would be 16" and surely be subject to adverse conditions if glued. I think the better solution here is to pin from underneath and avoid glue altogether. Or alternativel, glue the center2-3 inches and pin elsewhere.

1. 
   ring | Dec 31, 2006 11:27pm | #4

   The 1/3 (of 24") is instinctive flying by the seat of my pants. Mahogany is pretty stable stuff and experience tells me that 8" of glued breadboard across the grain won't give him trouble. If the table was very wide I still wouldn't glue up much more than that. On the other hand, that center 1/3 is certainly strong enough to keep the breadboard in place and do its thing. Using pins is fine; I have no problem with it. The question was whether it's possible to do without them.
   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

2. 
   Rich14 | Jan 01, 2007 12:33am | #5

   w_b, You've gotten good advice above. Just to add a bit - I sometimes pin all the way through a breadboard end, but I ALWAYS pin. I pin either with screws or "dowels" at the center and near the ends. The center pin is tight, the end pins have elongated slots in the panel's tenons, which allow sideways movement, but they keep the end tight against the panel. I've also seen screws as pins through the end of the batten. Again, the center one (or two) is tight, the end pins go in through elongated slots in the batten. Gluing just the center is OK also. Only a few inches need gluing. Rich

3. 
   [email protected] | Jan 01, 2007 12:41am | #6

   Sliding dove tail pinned in the middle.  The table can move as needed, the end stays tight across the width. 

1. 
   Steinmetz | Jan 01, 2007 05:21am | #7

   BRILLIANT! Steinmetz

2. 
   ring | Jan 01, 2007 08:53am | #8

   In theory, a great solution, but in practice really difficult to carry out. In order for the dovetail to do its job and to look good it needs to be a perfect fit. It has to be free enough not to bind and yet allow the wood movement; tight enough to look good at the exposed ends. I've tried it with the dovetails. Fitting those 2 sliding dovetails 24" long takes more work than all the rest of the table combined. And the results are not spectacular.There's a reason that you don't see the old "masters" doing breadboard ends this way. It's been tried and rejected. But I invite you to try for yourself. Maybe you'll come up with something.
   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e

1. 
   [email protected] | Jan 01, 2007 10:18pm | #10

   I've done one pair, 20-inches long.  I cut both the top and ends on a horizontal router table.  I waxed the ends of the top, the tails,  with paraffin (canning wax), and drove on the ends.  It wasn't too bad, but I spent the better part of a day tweaking things with test blocks of scrap. 

   You're right that they are finicky, and hard to fit just right.  I wouldn't dream of trying it with hand tools, and probably not with out a horizontal router table.  I figure the old masters didn't do them that way because they didn't have a horizontal router table, and doing them by hand would be nearly impossible.

4. 
   highfigh | Jan 01, 2007 08:32pm | #9

   The issues lie in the grain direction. The top's grain is perpendicular to the end and they will expand and contract in different directions, which is the reason you don't want to glue it all the way across. If you don't want to see the pins, you could insert them from the bottom and they don't need to go all the way through but you do need to allow for the top's expansion by elongating the holes in the top where the pins go through.

   "I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."