Replies

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 09, 2003 05:46pm | #1

   Pate, Briwax isn't a finish, it's a paste wax.  It can be removed with mineral spirits, and then you can put on the poly.  You have to make sure that all the wax is off.  Some use Naptha, I believe, to strip wax, but I'd use mineral spirits until I thought it was all gone, and then use a stronger solvent to really clean the last time.  Let it dry well, and then poly.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   pate | Oct 14, 2003 03:41pm | #9

   thanks for the great info!

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 14, 2003 07:00pm | #14

   You're welcome!  I was trying to get more for you via the Material Safety Data Sheet route, but got interrupted (by a customer, ha ha) on Friday and then spaced on it.  From what I remember, the solvents listed were Naptha (2%) and maybe Xylene (2%).  Didn't sound like they were all that heavy-handed, but I hadn't yet found the lists for Minwax and Johnson's Paste Wax to compare to.  On theBriwax web site, they make a point of fact that the new product (2000) takes more time and effort to apply than the old one with toluene.  That means the solvents aren't near as strong, which in this case is a good thing.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Crunk | Oct 14, 2003 08:23pm | #15

   Of course a high solvent formulation (whatever the brand) has its place, just not on a newly constructed and finished piece.  A high solvent wax can be a step saver when rewaxing a piece that needs more aggressive cleaning; it can eliminate the need to use a separate product to accomplish cleaning and removal of the old wax.  All this with the caveat that one doesn't want to clean a piece whose value is largely composed of centuries old patina.

1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 15, 2003 12:27am | #16

   Boss, exactly what percentage of solvent(s) constitutes "high-solvent formulation?"forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

2. 
   Crunk | Oct 15, 2003 02:37pm | #17

   Hell, I don't know.  I judge by how overpowering the smell is when I open up the can and how well it cleans dirty furniture.

   Regular Briwax, judging by the smell test, is the 'strongest' wax in my shop.  Liberon Professional's Wax has low, almost no solvent, Fiddes a bit stronger.  Briwax has made me dizzy on more than one occassion when I've worked on a big piece in my own home.

   Edited 10/15/2003 9:09:45 AM ET by BossCrunk

3. 
   forestgirl | Oct 15, 2003 06:58pm | #18

   My guess is that the Briwax you're using is the "old model" with Toluene.  Back in the days when I had an antique store, I had to keep that stuff out of the store -- it gave my employee asthma it was so strong.  The new stuff (Briwax 2000) should be much more like other waxes in its class.

   When I've got some time to kill tomorrow afternoon, I'll go looking again for the ingredients list for Johnson's and Minwax, and maybe the Liberon too.  It'll be interesting to see how they compare with respect to solvents.

   The other way to tell the comparative level of solvents is how much rubbing it takes to apply the wax. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

4. 
   Crunk | Oct 16, 2003 02:56pm | #19

   I like the strong Briwax.  Like I said above, it has its purpose and its place. 

   The Liberon is apparently no longer in production and enlightened owners are hoarding their stash and using it sparingly.  It's that good.

5. 
   Gretchen | Oct 16, 2003 03:39pm | #20

   I like the strong Briwax

   You really need to use this stuff with good ventilation or outside.  It does more than cause asthma--it kills brain cells.  No foolin'  .Gretchen

6. 
   Crunk | Oct 16, 2003 05:36pm | #21

   I know.  I set up fans and open windows.  I underestimated it one time in haste but have not made that mistake since.

7. 
   Curtis | Oct 17, 2003 12:43am | #22

   Hello

   I dont mean to change the subject... who? Liberon ?? stoped makeing BLACK B. waxs?  thats news to me. can you give me more info. on this? I REALY LIKE there waxs.

   please if you have more info, please let me know?

   sincererly.   C.A.G.

8. 
   Crunk | Oct 17, 2003 02:49pm | #23

   I haven't had the need to buy Liberon in a while, but somebody posted a while back that the people at Star Finishing Supply in Fort Bragg, California (the only place that sold it) says it is no longer made.  FWIW, it was made in France.  Maybe it is still available there.

9. 
   forestgirl | Oct 17, 2003 07:49pm | #24

   Can't believe everything you're told.  Just did a Google on Liberon+wax and came up with lots of hits, including the following at liberonsupply.comhttp://www.liberonsupply.com/liberon.html

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

10. 
    Crunk | Oct 17, 2003 11:37pm | #25

    Cool.  I wasn't too worried - I still have almost a full can.

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Oct 09, 2003 06:26pm | #2

   As FG has said, Briwax is a paste wax. If the wax has been applied to a bare wood, then there is no practical way to remove it completely. The wax--because of it's solvents--is drawn fairly deeply into the pores of the wood. The only way to remove it is by agressive sanding.

   Poly varnish has poor adhesion and likely would not work well over a surface that had any wax residue.

1. 
   Elcoholic | Oct 09, 2003 10:19pm | #3

    Many of the unfinished furniture places, especially those selling so called rustic or country pine push Briwax since it's so easy.  No durability to speak off.  I'd agree that stripping it off of bare wood w/o sanding would be an exercise in futility.  De-waxed shellac might work as a barrier coat for the poly after a thorough solvent wash.John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking

   Life is tough.  It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne

1. 
   pate | Oct 14, 2003 03:41pm | #11

   Thanks!

2. 
   pate | Oct 14, 2003 03:41pm | #12

   Thanks!

2. 
   pate | Oct 14, 2003 03:41pm | #10

   thanks!

3. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 11, 2003 08:36am | #4

   Pate

      Agree with others about the wax penetrating the pores. If the piece had been Watco'ed before wax applied, it could be removed easier with mineral spirits or naptha. I believe you would have to sand to the depth the wax had penetrated to get the adhesion you need.

      An alternative, try looking local at an unfinished furniture outlet. You would be better to start with a clean surface you can control and dictate with the poly. I don't use poly often, but in the case of kitchen, bathroom or shop benches it is the ticket with all the moisture that the piece is exposed to.

   Luck...

   sarge..jt

1. 
   pate | Oct 14, 2003 03:42pm | #13

   Great info thanks!

4. 
   jazzdogg | Oct 11, 2003 10:00am | #5

   Pate,

   FWIW, I seem to recall that Briwax contains toluene (one of the reasons I don't use it); I surmise it may penetrate the wood fibers a little deeper than an unadulterated wax as a result. You may want to experiment a little on the underside (assuming it, too, has Briwax applied) before attempting work on the top.

   Good luck,
   Paul

   Whether you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right.
1. 
   forestgirl | Oct 11, 2003 06:19pm | #6

   There are two versions of Briwax, one with toluene and one without.  The one without is called Briwax 2000http://www.briwax-online.com/wax.html

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   Edited 10/11/2003 11:21:04 AM ET by forestgirl

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Oct 11, 2003 10:23pm | #7

   FG

      Thanks.... was not aware of that.

   Regards....

   sarge..jt

5. 
   Crunk | Oct 11, 2003 10:44pm | #8

   Unless you deal with antiques, Briwax doesn't have much of a place in your shop.

   It's a high-solvent wax.