Hello All,
I’m using a Pratt & Lambert oil-based paint on a small chest. Even with the best of bristle, brush marks are way too obvious. The paint just doesn’t want to flow right, but the label says not to thin it. What do you think, thin it anyway? Also, I’ve read that enamels can be rubbed with pumice and water. Any experience out there? Thanks for any advice.
Replies
Luna,
An alternative to the pumice is 400 grit and parrafin oil....really smooth finish. However, I doubt it'll touch your brush marks. I hate to admit this, but I use a cut in pad on almost all painted wood work..especially windows where the high gloss finish needs to look good. The cut in pad has those little wheels and a replaceable pad...it just seems to work like majic...
You might try adding some Penetrol to the paint
http://www.floodco.com/Products/penetrol.cfm
You can thin it 10% and it will generally flow out better. Manufactures are required to formulate their coatings with regard to VOC emmission requirements. The more thinners, the higher the VOC's. Therefore they are required to tell you not to add thinners to their products. But, you can do whatever you want.
Next, are you using a good natural bristle brush?
Agree- cut it down until it does what you want. Penetrol, paint thinner, take your pick. Most of your petroleum based solvents will cut it acceptably.
I was thinking about sanding down the brush marks on my panel doors, which also would take down the gloss. Then wiping or brushing on some clear finish. What do you think?
That's acceptable so long as the clear coat and the paint agree with each other. The resultant gloss should look like the clear coat you put on, meaning if you spray flat black on a piece and decide you don't like it, you could scuff sand it, put on gloss poly, and the end result will look glossy. The coat on the top gives the sheen. The flatteners in the paint don't seem to be significant when top coated in this manner. It works because paint is monochromatic. (or at least, that's my assessment). Conversely, multiple coats of a satin finish can in the end yield more of a flat look. The films all build on each other and the flatteners within each all do their job until you have so many over the original colorant that they begin to obscure. If you're sanding paint, get a stearated paper to reduce clogging, sand by hand rather than machine, make sure the paint is fully cured before starting. Sherwin sells a kind of paper (I don't recall its true name) that we simply call green paper. It's lime greenish in color that works pretty well on paints.
You don't say what color the paint is. But, overcoating a light paint with an oil based clear finish will add lots of yellow to the base color. It generally looks pretty strange. I suggest you do some tests before you go that route so you are not surprised.
Why not just sand, and then apply a smooth, thinned coat of the original paint? Remember though, even using a badger brush will not give the results of a sprayed finish.
How about a wiped on water based clear finish, eg, Tripp Danish, over sanded white latex? The Tripp is very hard glossy. Maybe I'll experiment with that. I also want to experiment some more with the cheap rollers and pad brushes. I was surprised recently when I used a tiny roller how well it applied paint and held up. I also used it for applying glue to a wide panel.
You're right. Now I remember a painted door that my father poly'd over long time ago. It did go yellow. I'll stay away from that idea!
They're expensive, but nothing beats a good badger brush.
Any suggestion for an on-line source for badger brushes? I live in the boonies and the all the local hardware/supply places are limited to bristle and polyester types. I know I've seen them in a woodworking catalog someplace.
I'm going to suggest that a badger brush is not absolutely required. They are excellent for applying varnishes and shellacs as they hold lots of material and work best for "flowing" on the finish. I have four, but that is because I used to be a finisher at a yacht yard. They took almost a weeks pay to buy.
A good, top of the line, Purdy brush should work just fine.
Even though I mentioned badger brushes in a prior posting, technique and proper thinning is the key to getting a smooth brushed finish.
I've learned that I don't like P&L paints for the same reason. Penetrol additive gets my vote.
Excellence is its own reward!
"The first rule is to keep an untroubled spirit. The second is to look things in the face and know them for what they are." --Marcus Aurelius
LUNATHREE,
Have the same trouble myself. Here are my remedies which honestly don't always yield perfection but come close. 1. Use a foam brush and carefully feather. 2. Apply several thin coats of paint but alternate new coats to 90 degrees from the prior coat. 3. On large or some small surfaces use one of those small skinny rollers with a short nap. This gives a slightly pebbly look which is kind of appealing. 4. Stir the paint thoroughly and run it through an old nylon stocking before painting. This removes any chunks or contaminants that will streak in brush bristles. 5. Even with a new brush, many of the bristles are not sufficiently "flagged". I think this is the term used to describe the way bristles are softened or split at the ends. Therefore to remedy this at home get a large wire brush and comb the brush bristles on all sides to soften the ends. 6. Buy a solvent resistant spray bottle, carefully thin the paint and spray. 7. Wait till the paint is very dry (with oil base about one week) sand with 320 wet/dry paper, dust thoroughly with a tack cloth and topcoat with a couple coats of polyurethane using techniques as usual for a clear coat. 8. Be sure your brush is loaded with enough paint. This should help flow. 9. Consider penetrol rather than mineral spirits as a paint extender. 10. Tilt the project at a very slight angle if possible to allow the paint to "creep" when drying. This helps flow out some. 11. Allow the paint to dry very slowly in a humid, cool, dust and draft free room. This reduces brush marks as well by again aiding flow out.
sawick
Thanks to all for the tips. As it is only the first coat, I'm going to sand it out and recoat. I will thin with Penetrol, which is new to me, and search for a badger brush. I agree with the bristle flagging point. I think I'll experiment with rubbing it out also. The top and feet I stained and poly'd with Minwax wipe-on. Can't see why I could use this on the paint as well to match the luster. Smooth is in!
From Dorloo, NY, have a great Thanksgiving!
I would really start with the badger brush. Painters have been using them for beau coup years for just this reason.
Don
VM&P Naptha or penetrol. I like the naptha, it increases your open time like penetrol.
Hi,
I'm for using the badger brush, thinning the paint a bit and using good technique. Regarding the latter, some folks keep brushing and brushing...so that, as the paint dries, you're actually leaving brush marks in rapidly-drying paint. Load up the brush, brush one long, even stroke and move over, always keeping a wet edge. Don't brush again!
If your paint is drying too fast, retarder may help the paint to dry slower and thus fade out.
I'd also look at Jeff Jewitt's website, Homestead Finishing...great advice forum by a master! Jeff also sells badger brushes...but I think they're a bit pricey...bought a very nice one from him....love its' performance...but have seen much less expensive brushes.
Good luck!
lp
Thanks Larry. Badger brushes are pricey. I found a site though that carries marine stuff, Jamestown Distributors in RI, and their prices are not bad compared to what I've seen so far. I really didn't expect to find painting furniture such a challenge! Fortunately my mistakes on this one piece are removable so I can stumble along. It will come out right in the end, especially with the guidance I've found in this discussion. Happy Thanksgiving!
Edited 11/28/2002 5:41:02 AM ET by LUNATHREE
Thanks Lunathree,
I agree that my $40 badger brush is pricey..but just having finished three coats of garnet shellac on the dresser I've spent 5 months working on..with nary a drip, lost hair (the brush..not my head.....smile), or brush mark..it's easily money well spent. The only viable alternatives are an HVLP gun (at $500+) or the wipe-on finish techniques. The latter may be the best..I've just not learned how to use 'em. There's a good article in this website about spar varnish wiped on and sanded in....looks intriguing.
Good luck.
lp
I just ordered two badger brushes from Hamilton Marine, $30 total. We'll see what they're like. The small chest I'm trying to paint is actually one of five pieces for the bedroom. The others are stained and top coated with Minwax wipe-on satin poly, the painted chest has a stained top and feet to match the others. I've mixed up my own version for semigloss, 3 equal parts linseed, varnish, and mineral spirits, and works fine. But I found that my satin version streaked too much, so I went with store bought. Wipe it on, wait till just sticky, wipe it off witha lint-free rag. 3 coats. So, I've sanded out all my brush marks and will give it another go. I will say this though, the flat surfaces on the small chest are LEVEL!
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