Hi all
I’ve been accumulating justifications to buy a LV BU smoother. I’m pretty much there but now I’ve also seen the LV scraper plane. Now I’m wondering which would be more versatile. I’d love to hear some opinions from users of both.
Thanks,
David
Replies
David, I'd go for the BUS - you cannot use the scraper plane on soft wood. Anyway, the BUS is capable of handling extremely difficult grain (with the appropriate bevel angle).
Regards from Perth
Derek
Thanks Derek
I appreciate the advice. I do work on a lot of soft wood here in the Pac NW, so the BU smoother seems like the way to go. Best wishes.
David
David,
Mike and Derek offer sound advice. I'd go with the BUS and stick with a $5 card scraper until you feel you can justify the scraper plane. Personally, I prefer a #80 style scraper over the plane style. I don't know which other planes you have, but if you don't have a plane you can shoot with, I'd get the LA Smooth or Jack first.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Thanks ChrisIt's great to get such consistent advice from avid plane user, especially considering how many options there are. Thanks again.David
I would go with the LA smoother rather than the BUS as well. I have the BUS and love it, but due to the shape, I can't use it on a shooting board, whereas the more conventional side shape of the LA smoother allows it's use in that application as well.
I was actually advised by LV to go that route, but because I had fallen in love with the BUS, reason was lost on me. :)
Mike D
Mike
The LAS is indeed a super plane, quite as capable as the BUS, however the BUS will do the work with less effort. More feel with the lighter LAS, and more ooomph/stability with the heavier BUS.
The LAS has a broader ranger, as you note. It all comes down to whether you already have a plane for the shooting boards and whether you want a specialised smoother, like the BUS.
I explored this in my review of the BUS: http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews/The%20Veritas%20Lee%20Valley%20Bevel%20Up%20Smoother.html
Regards from Perth
Derek
I think that this is your very review that swung me over to the BUS side.
I don't regret the choice, I just wish that LV had made the sides square and parallel to the direction of cut. Then it would be my even more favorite plane.
Mike D
Which is most versatile? Neither - both are designed to do one job well.
If you want to pick nits, then the smoother. The bevel up design lets you have several blade sharpened at different angles. BUT, you will still end up scraping the most tear out prone areas of a figured board.
From the other view, the scraper plane is not the best choice for smoothing out an entire surface. It is designed to handle the small areas that a smoother cant.
My recommendation is to get the smoother and a hand scraper. Then when you feel a *need* for a scraper plane get it.
Mike
Thanks Mike
That's exactly what I will do. I already have some scrapers and bench planes. It sounds like the BU smoother kind of fills in that middle ground between them. Just the advice I was hoping for, the best kind. Best wishes,
David
I'll second what Derek said. Change bevel of the blade and you've got a new plane. I suppose you could grind a 90 degree angle on the blade and make it a scraper plane, but it'd be a bear to push! I keep two blades for my BUS--38 degree for a York pitch and 50 degree for a 62 degree angle for highly figured wood. Take a very light cut and there's just no tear out. No scraping or sanding needed. Tom
David:
Let's be honest, we all know you're going to wind up with both! You see if you are actually seriously thinking about spending several hundred dollars on a hand plane you are, like the rest of us, truly a tool junkie and nothing that anyone says will stop you from getting your fix.
So the question is not really which to buy, but which to buy first! Now isn't that much easier? Looks like you're leaning toward the LV BU plane, cool, but let me tell you about the sensuous surfaces you get with that scraper plane....
Enjoy them both!
Hi, my name is Madison and I am a hand plane junkie.
I have the LV BU jointer and jack. Just finished scraping a 60" x 76" x 2" zebrawood table top. I used the BU jack with a 38 degree then 50 degree blade and still had some tear out. Ended up using both super flexible scraper card and the LV cabinet scraper to get rid of all the tear out.
Question: after using the scrapers so much, I ordered today the LV scraper plane (I just received two orders for 48" x 48" zebrawood tables). I had considered the LV BUS but decided the scraper plane would handle the zebrawood better (after all that scraping!) than the BUS since I had already given it my best shot with the jack/50 degree combo: Opinions of this purchase? Is there a better combination of LV planes (I'm sticking with LV since I have several of the 2 1/4" Veritas blades for the bevel up planes)?
Thanks and warm regards,
Rom
When I was having trouble with tearout using the LV BUS with the 50 degree blade (62 degrees included angle), I thought that surely the LV Scraper Plane would solve my problems. Not so, in my case.
While inexperience with the scraper plane caused me early grief, my technique improved, but the tearout on the really difficult wood did not. I finally resorted to the RAS to get the piece done.
Since then, there have been suggestions that I'll try on the next really challenging piece. One is to smooth plane "cross grain". I'm not yet sure if that's at 90 degrees to the grain or at 30 to 45 degrees. Perhaps someone can comment?
The other is to wet the wood with DNA before plaining. I suspect that wetting with DNA will help a lot, since I use that suggestion to vastly improve the performance of my power jointer and power plane with difficult wood, and I can't think of a reason why it would not work using a hand plane.
This is quite a journey, eh? I suspect that there are lots of remedies for this element. Good Luck!
Mike D.
Thanks, Mike. I appreciate your comments. The LV scraper plane should be here Wednesday and I'll give it a whirl on some scrap zebrawood. I should know what I need to know (or know what I don't know?) after that.
It has been a journey. I sort of "backed into" hand planing. I had purchased a LV #4 bench plane a few years ago but didn't use it very much. Alot of the work I do is with power tools (many Festool products, Powermatic table saw, Jet bandsaw and joiner, and etc.). The "back in" occured when I realized that I could level a planked table top more quickly with hand planes than a belt sander followed with ROS. Since then I've purchased the LV LA jointer and jack planes, three LV block planes and two shoulder planes from LV.
In most cases planing meant I could skip alot of the sanding and go directly to finishing. Since woodworking is a business for me, saving time is saving money. Dealing with tear out (in my opinion) is technical, financial and aesthetic. It also makes me want to tear my hair out because hand scraping the tear out just kills productivity.
Within reason (and budget) I'll buy the tools necessary to achieve those goals as well as make my clients happy (and come back for more). What I like about the challenge of hand planing is that I think the results will be rewarding.
And if it isn't I can always take the plunge and buy the Jet 16-32 drum sander!
Thanks, again.
Rom
" finally resorted to the RAS to get the piece done."
Mike,
Okay, so it's late and I'm dead tired. I read that as you resorted to the Raidal arm saw. Double take!!! Why do we have the same abbreviation for two different tools?
EDIT: Triple-take. That must have been a typo. RAS = Radial Arm Saw. ROS = Random Orbit Sander.
Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
- Success is not the key to happines. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
Edited 6/3/2008 1:49 am by flairwoodworks
SORRY!
I did mean Random Orbit Sander. (ROS, NOT RAS; ros NOT ras; - 100 times)
My Radial Arm Saw is busy scaring the heck out of some other poor soul, as I gave it away about 9 years ago. I even threw in the planer attachment, the router bit attachment, the dreaded Molding Head with "5 common and useful profiles" (one of which, I know for a fact, can propel a 5 foot long 1 x 4 across a workshop room and into a cinder block wall), and my De Cristopher book "Make any piece of furniture imaginable with your radial arm saw" and "Radial Arm Saw Joinery - Made Easy".
Mike D
re. RAS: I just assumed you meant Right Angle Sander (such as the models made by Bosch and Festool, to name two). I have the Festool RO150 FEQ, ETS150/3 and ETS125 EQ. These are my everyday sanding tools. The 150 does a great job in rotary mode leveling a table. Following it up with the ROS mode, then progressively working up grits to final sanding with either the 150/3 or 125. But, as I said earlier, sometimes the jointer and jack planes do a quicker job of leveling. It depends (for me at my skill level) on how much I need to level.
Rom
Your post cracked me up. My first large power tool was a Sears RAS with the option package of a molder head, drill press chuck a dado blade sanding disk and various other tools. Kinda of the Swiss Army knife of the wood shop. I was making a small table and chair set for my kids and was dadoing some 2 x2’s. Turned them into bullets and put several through the sheet rock. That saw scared the %$#$# out of me. It made a very slow drill press and I never got the nerve to try the molding head. Those small blades held in with a small setscrew just didn’t look safe. I got rid of it and bought my first table saw.
Bob T.
Regarding the RAS, I worked with a guy who swore by the saw for everything (this was some 25 years ago). I bought a radial arm saw and I never felt comfortable with it. I had a molding head that my now-deceased father used in a table saw, and one of the knives perfectly matched a profile on some molding I had to duplicate, and so I used the molding head. Because of my fear of the machine, I attached strips of wood onto the table of the saw to guide and hold the stock and also to offer some protection against kick-backs or the chance of my fingers going into that swirling dervish! Got the job done and the RAS sat idle for several years until I convinced a respondent to a classified ad to purchase it. I did not sell the molding head with the saw.
Incidentally, Sears (and I beleive Delta) still sell the molding heads and blades. I have never had more fear of a shop machine than I do of RAS and that molding head. At least with my handsaw if I nip a finger, I can (hopefully) stop cutting before lopping off the digit!
T.Z.
Yeah Madison, you're probably right. I had been considering getting a Performax sander until I realized that the same money would get me several nice planes which would be much more satisfying to use. BTW, I could quit thinking about hand planes any time I wanted....David
Uh Huh, need I remind you about that first crisp curl of the day? The sound it makes coming off that finely honed blade? The heft of that fine casting and the feel of hardwood in your hands
Right, walk away...if you can for now, but we both know you'll be back and the need will be worse, so much worse!
Enjoy
Madison
Is that social thinking or the cumpulsive, solitary kind?? LOL
"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Um, I'm sure that no one involved with using hand planes could be accused of being compulsive in any way. The simple fact is that you need dozens of planes, each of which should be admired admired and coveted...
--revered and caressed--; Yeah, you're right, nothing obsessive or compulsive about any of us hand plane guys!! LOL (Let's have coffee after the meeting)
Regards,
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
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