Hi All,
I would like to build my own exterior shutters – basically frame and panel (or rails and styles) with 2 panels per shutter. I’d be cutting a crecent moon into each shutter as well.
I’d like to know if anyone could give me an idea of what woods to use, whether I could use plywood for the panels, and any building tips that would help these shutters last a long time.
I’ve seen articles on building louvered shutters but nothing along the lines for the shutters I would like to build.
Thanks for any ideas here!
Dave in Rochester, NY
Replies
dave
do you have a picture or an illustration of what you would like to do?? post it.
I'll play with Sketch-up this afternoon and post a design.
Thanks danmart!
Are you talking about hurricane shutters? I'm just curious is this what you are looking for (link below)? You could probably refer to this site to get ideas. Secondly, are you going to paint, or do you want stained? I would think Cyprus would be a good wood. Teak would be sharp but expensive. http://www.thewoodshopcustomshutters.com/HurricaneShutters.htm
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
The shutters will be decorative only. I was wondering about poplar. I seem to remember a friends house in West Virginia that was sided with unfinished poplar and it's still going strong after 20 years. I was figuring I would use waterproof glue and m&t joinery. I was wondering also about housing the panel in such a way that no water seeps in between the frame and the panel causing rot..
<"The shutters will be decorative only. I was wondering about poplar. I seem to remember a friends house in West Virginia that was sided with unfinished poplar and it's still going strong after 20 years. I was figuring I would use waterproof glue and m&t joinery. I was wondering also about housing the panel in such a way that no water seeps in between the frame and the panel causing rot..">Wouldn't use poplar- it will rot.You cannot float a panel and make it waterproof. Use solid wood- see my previous post. I live outside Philadelphia, and there are many houses with traditional shutters, some of which are >100 years old. The old time method is tried and true... I wouldn't reinvent this wheel. If you are cutting a crescent into the panel, it shouldn't be plywood...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Hi Glaucon,
Don't know if you'll be getting this but I have a question about one of your comments. You mentioned that you would not "float" the panels within the rails and stiles. How exactly then would you deal with attaching the panels particularly so that they would shed water and not rot?
Hope you get this :) !
Best,
Dave
Espo-I was less clear than I might have been. What I meant was that you would have difficulty in using a plywood panel floated between the rails and stiles for an exterior application. Water will seep into the crevices, and the edge of the plywood will get wet- this can lead to swelling, delamination, and an unsightly failure of the joint.Since floating the panels is the best way to build these types of shutters (permitting wood movement, etc), it follows that you should 1) float the panels and 2) not use plywood (i.e. make the panels out of solid wood, such as cedar).Other advantages of using solid wood are stability and superior rot resistance. Too, you can raise the panel, which is a nice detail- and is relatively easy to do on a router table with cedar. It is unlikely that you will be able to make such panels from a single board, however. If the windows are 30"-32" wide, and the rails and stiles are about 2 3/8" each, then the panels will need to be 10"-12", which means milling and joining bards into panels. On the other hand, if you buy clear cedar in 4/4 x 6" x 8', you can mill it and join it assembly line fashion without great difficulty. You will have to adjust the final measurements depending on your window dimensions.Good luck,Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Thanks Glaucon,There's one other product that's been suggested to me by a fellow at our local lumber yard for just the panels. It's MDO which he told me is used amoung other things, in highway signs. He said that I'd still need to provide drainage at the bottowm of the panels though which I imagine would be a good thing to do even if using cedar as panels. We'll see, maybe I can "mix and match" my materials - maybe not...Thanks again for your advice Glaucon.
Best,
Dave
You're welcome Dave.I haven't used MDO, so I can't advise you about it one way or the other, but perhaps others will weigh in.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Another good outdoor panel material (also used in highway signs) is Medex, which is a brand of MDF made with waterproof binders.
There's also a high-end architectural product made with veneer laminated to a paper/phenolic panel. It looks very nice, and is very rugged. I was evaluating a sample a while back, and it passed my "boiling test" (immerse the material in boiling water for one hour) with only minor discoloration around the edges. Of course, the flip side is that it's very expensive (as I recall, it works out to around $15 per sq ft). It's made by a Spanish company, whose name I can't remember off the top of my head; I can look it up if you're interested.
-Steve
If decrative only and you want to last, then cypres or teak (expensive), or redwood if you can get it. Others have mentioned cedar as well. Just keep in mind if you paint that's a maintenance item. Good luck. Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
ESPO
Popular is probably the absolute worst wood as far as decay resistance goes.. Pine even scores higher!
Some nice cheap decay resistant wood will work best say white oak.. however if you use white oak the tannins in it will attack steel anything rusting the steel and decaying the wood.. forcing you to use either stainless steel or a well galvanized fastner which won't flake off when being installed..
You don't say what type of house that you have, but a frame and panel shutter with a cut-out motif is often found on colonial revival houses (e.g. 1915-1945). Some hints:
1. Don't use plywood- it will not have longevity in this application. Panels made of ply will tend to delaminate in the exposed, weathered conditions that exterior shutters are in.
2. For wood, rot resistance is key. The best options are cedar, cypress, redwood, teak, and to a lesser extent, fir. Teak and redwood are too expensive for this application, I would say. Your best bet is cedar, which is widely available, moderately priced, and easy to work (teak isn't). I would buy clear (~knot free) grade, probably 5/4 for the frame and 4/4 for the panels, and mill each down about 1/4. If possible, get the wood several months in advance, mill it and sticker it for ~4 weeks before constructing the shutters. I would mill the whole lot at the same time (in two passes, a week apart) to simplify construction later.
3. For historical accuracy (you are going to a lot of trouble here, so why not), take the shutter measurements so that when closed, the shutters exactly cover the window opening. "Decorative" shutters that are smaller than this look cheap. You can buy actual hardware to mount the shutters so they can open and close- even if you never do it, it does look great.
4. If you want two panels per shutter, you need to decide how large each panel should be. You could make them equal, or you could use the "golden mean" and make the top panel shorter (~0.6 times the lower panel)- this is pleasing to the eye. Depending on how long the windows are, you may want 3 panels per shutter.
5. For this application, you want to mortise and tenon the rails and stiles, or I don't think your shutters will last. You can cut floating tenons where each rail and stile meet with a router jig (easy in cedar) or a Domino would work well. If you are doing many, you can probably justify the cost of one... After cutting the mortises, you can mill out the rails and stiles.
6. If you do decide to use cedar, and if you are planning to paint the shutters, use an oil based primer as your base coat- it adheres to cedar better than a latex. You can have the primer pigmented the same color as the top coat, then you can put two coats of latex on. If you have a large number of shutters to do, consider a spaying set-up.
FWIW, my house is a 1927 colonial revival. The clapboards are cedar. I had a gutter fail a few years ago, causing water to sheet down the back of the house, blistering the paint. In the spring when I noticed it, I had to scrape off about 3 square yards of paint. There was no rot at all on the 80 year old clapboards- that I primed and painted, good as new.
Good luck,
Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,
Depends on where you are located doesn't it? around here white oak is many times cheaper than cedar and has superior decay resistance properties (more tannic acid)
Cypress would be cheaper in the south.
Modern redwood, cedar and cypress simply don't have the decay resistant properties of the old growth stuff which really established their reputation.. modern stuff is plantation grown and the growth rings tend to be extremely large.
Glaucon,
Thanks a lot for your thoughtful and generous advice. I have a good local source of cedar so I'm nearly good to go. Oh, the house is a 1930's Cape.
I'm looking forward to this project - cedar smells so nice...
Espo,You're welcome.I don't agree with Frenchy regarding rot-resistance and cedar. The newer growth cedar does have wider rings, and like all such wood, will not have the same milling properties, and a tendency to warp- which is why I recommend acclimating the wood and milling it in two stages. The rot resistance is not affected. As has been said, different woods may be available at different costs in different parts of the country, YMMV.The reason that I recommend cedar is that it is widely available, and the clear grade, while more expensive, avoids all the knot staining issues that the less expensive grades have.Do a little experiment- pick up a copy of Fine Homebuilding, and look at the commercial semi-custom shutter ads. They use cedar much more than any other wood- there is probably a message in this...Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,
If you are saying that plantation grown wood still retains some rot resistance I'll agree with you..
However if you compare old growthe wood to modern plantation grown wood you will clearly see a differance.. There is also a differance between north and south side of the hill grown wood.. Northern side of a hill grown wood has growth rings closer together. While southern hill side grown trees grow faster and thus have less tannic acid and softer wood as a result..
Since we still harvest old growth hardwood here In Minnesota I can buy wood from trees that were growing before this country became a nation.. hundreds of years old.. I can also buy wood from trees that are as little as 60 years old. The dense growth rings count out well over 200 in some cases and in other cases maybe only 60 years depending on where the tree grew and was it accesable or not.
In a wood like White oak that makes a big differance..
Frenchy,I think that you are conflating several issues.First, I agree in general that regarding hardwoods, heartwood is much more resistant to rot than is sapwood. Thus for white oak, old growth lumber with its tight rings and high heartwood content is likely to be more rot resistant than is secondary growth stock.For resinous softwood such as cedar (all types), this is less true. If you consult the USFS "Wood as an Engineering Material" handbook [http://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr113/fplgtr113.pdf] (table 3-10), you will note that cedar (all 7 varieties) are categorized as "rot resistant or very rot resistant), as is white oak. Redwood old growth is similarly categorized, but redwood young growth is only "moderately rot resistant".This, I think even plantation grown cedar will do for shutters, particularly if painted. For shingles, old growth cedar may have an advantage, unless the roof is steeply pitched, in which case second growth will likely last 30-50 years.Glaucon
If you don't think too good, then don't think too much...
Glaucon,
I'm sure you are correct.. in that it might be good enough considering it will be painted anyway.. I have pine shutters that were nearly two decades old and they were in perfect shape.. when removed.. They had one quick spray coat of finish and then they were installed and remained completely without rot for nearly 2 decades.
I tend to think of things longer term than that.. My thoughts are that if it takes 100 years to grow the replacement trees we need to ensure that theobject will last 100 years +.
"I tend to think of things longer term than that.. My thoughts are that if it takes 100 years to grow the replacement trees we need to ensure that the object will last 100 years +"Thumbs up on that. How are prices and availability for larch where you live? Where I live, larch is the thing for windows, etc. It's considered weatherproof and from what I've seen it really is. The oustide courtyard doors are 130 years old and in perfect condition, massive larch. Our new "french" windows on one side are also larch, lightly stained a kind of greenish/amber that's pretty nice. I don't know the differences between European and New World larches but they're all along the lines of Douglas fir as far as properties. But larch is a little heavier and more sleek.20 year-old unfinished poplar shutters that aren't like molding oatmeal? My only memory of working with poplar is cutting out a sickly and soggy green spot that had developed in it for no apparent reason, but who knows. Just looked up poplar to see if there might be completely different species all called "poplar" and what do you know, the Mona Lisa is painted on poplar. -Bobro
Edited 2/19/2008 5:35 pm ET by Bobro
I have made many paneled shutters for exterior use and depending what the client wants to spend I have used the following very successfully. cypress, western red cedar, red wood, & white oak. For panels I have used solid wood and MDO. All have been painted and I have 4 pair in my neighborhood which are about 14 years old and they still look good. These particular ones were made from cypress.
poplar is one of the least decay resistant woods in a wet or moist environment. I would never recommend it for a shutter, but yes for cornice work or other protected areas.
Mike
Hi All,
Just wanted to thank all of you for your thoughts on this matter, I've been away on business all last week and it was a real delight to get back and see how this thread has grown! Again, thanks for the help...
Dave in Rochester,NY
Spanish Cedar hold up well both painted and clear finished, it machines wonderfully. Left unpainted it will take on a silver patina. Just wear a mask when working with it and be forwarned, do not get the taste in the mouth, you will carry it for days.
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