I’m about to build a cherry bar in my “shop” i.e. my garage. It is 20 degrees. Can I build it in the cold and install it with out fear of shrinkage? Should it be stained and sealed first? I don’t feel this is the best approach. Need advise from those who know.
Replies
Most glue freezes at 32° and many finishes require 60°. I don't imagine the comfort level is conducive to cabinet work. Personally, I would try to heat the space and take things in that will be effected by the low temps.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Skarloy,
Your glue will freeze,not set, your finish won't cure, and the wood will expand, not shrink when you install it. Expect all kinds of problems; not the least of which will be your health and sanity. Heat the dang garage and the materials used to build the bar or you'll be sorry.
The easiest and safest way is with oil-filled electric heaters. They don't have open flames, hot elements that can set off dust or fumes, and they're relatively inexpensive ($35 to $45 each at Ace, Walmart, Lowe's, etc. ) Just make sure your electrical wiring is up to the task. Be safe.
Steve
Being from S. Mississippi, I can't imagine working in 20 degrees. We may get 20 once a year and then only for a day or two. Otherwise, we have to have it shipped in by UPS:-)
Fussy is right. The first thing that caught my eye is your concern about shrinkage. From a logical sandpoint, the only way it would shrink is if the temp should go much lower.
I do hope your shop is such that heating can be accomplished without a major outlay.
The cherry will lose moisture and shrink when it is brought indoors in the winter from an unheated shop, but it would be the same amount of shrinkage and warpage that the piece would experience, and will continue to experience, as it is exposed over its lifetime to typically drier winters and more humid summers. So if you build the piece using the standard methods of allowing for wood movement, that you should always use, you won't have a problem.
That said, glues and finishes simply cannot be used in even moderately low temperatures, so what you are trying to accomplish isn't practical.
John White, Shop Manager, Fine Woodworking Magazine
John,So what advice do you have for allowing wood to acclimate in your heated shop once you bring it in from an unheated lumberyard, before you start to mill it?********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
The usual advice is to bring the wood into the shop a couple of weeks to a month before you plan to use it. The wood should be stickered and have good air circulation around it. If your shop's floor is cold and possibly damp, the stack should be raised a few feet off the floor.
For wood that is more than a one to two inches thick or that started out wetter than usual more time will be needed. It doesn't hurt to seal the ends of the boards to prevent end checking, especially if you expect the wood to lose a lot of moisture quickly in the warmer shop environment.
Once the wood has dried out for the two to four weeks, it should be cut close to final dimensions, leaving the stock oversized for final straightening and dimensioning. After this cutting to oversize, the wood should ideally be given another few days, stickered up, to further gain or lose moisture and to reveal if any of the boards are prone to major warping. Wood that warps badly shouldn't be used if at all possible, it will probably cause problems in joinery and later in the finished piece.
Once the boards are dressed to final dimensions they should be used as soon as possible. If the dimensioned pieces are going to sit several days I wrap them in plastic to keep them stable until they can be actually incorporated in the piece of furniture.
John W.
Thanks, John.During the winter months, I have adhered to the 2 week rule, but I have never bothered to seal the board ends. What would you recommend for this? I buy most of my hardwood skip planed and straight-lined; and I usually stockpile it in an unheated space, and being in MN, it gets pretty cold.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
Any ordinary latex house paint works reasonably well as an end sealant but I often use duct tape to seal the end grain for smaller quantities of stock.
The tape is quick, less messy, and thus more likely to get used, and it can be peeled off and reapplied to the board ends after you have done the rough cutting.
On rush jobs, where I couldn't let the boards fully dry out before I started to use them, I've even used the tape well into the job with the boards cut to final dimensions, reapplying the tape at the end of each work day.
Stay warm,
John W.
I thought perhaps you would recommend PEG, or some such. The duct tape idea is ingenious......... and easy. Thanks.********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
You can buy a commercial end saler called anchorseal. It is very easy to work with. It is a milky looking latex product that is like wax paint. Anyway, it dries to clear waxy coating. A gallon should last a long time in a workshop. I use it to seal logs before I cut them into boards on my porable sawmill.https://www.uccoatings.com/prod_anchorseal.php
I used hide glue at a borderline temp. It tacked and set up, but the next day you could break the joint apart with your hand.
Frank
Holy Smokes, that's cold. Regarding the heating.....concerns about triggering dust explosions and fume explosions are overstated, IMHO. If the dust or fumes are that thick you'd not be breathing, making a fire a minor concern.
Back before I got a wood stove, and then pellet stove, to heat my shop, I used a two-fold approach to heating. I'd get a quick "heat boost" by fireing up one of those propane torpedo heaters. Ridiculous amount of noise, and not very enjoyable to be around, but it got the 22' x 22' space at least bearable fairly quickly. Then I'd turn the torpedo off and use a kerosene heater for maintenance. This nee garage, now shop, is extreeeeeemely drafty so it didn't stay very warm for long, but if your garage is a bit more normal in its construction, a combination something like that might work.
The downside to propane and kerosene is that they'll produce moisture, raising the humidity some. How much of a problem this is depends on the RH to start with and how long you have to run them.
You can heat a very circumscribed area by focusing halogen work lights on it, the tall ones with 500W or more in each stand.
All of these actions require great safety consciousness of course.
Not sure if all of the above might end up costing you as much as a Hot Dawg heater.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Cold that's nothing. Up here it's been 0 degrees (-17C) all week.
After my electric hater died I decided to get a natural gas heater installed similar to the Hpt Dawg. It was a great purchase... though if my shop were not insulated I can imagine that it would cost a bunch.
I have to agree with you regarding the danger from dust explosions. With any reasonable dust collections system the concentration will not get that high. I'd be a little more carefull with fumes when spraying, but wouldn't worry about it too much for general finishing tasks.
Buster
Around here it gets cold. My shop is heated with only a wood stove, so many mornings it starts out at zero F or below. I start a fire and wait a while. I can work comfortably at 40 degrees. I never glue until the temperature is above the manufacturer's instructions and I keep a fire until the glue has cured. Finishes take longer than at normal temperature but the wood fire is dry so that helps. I work the wood over a period of time to make sure it is dry - again, the wood fire helps. I've been building like this for 20 years so far and I can tell you with proper precautions it works.
Bring your water stones in at night.
I like to think that the great furniture of the past was built in a similar environment.
As others have said, PVA glue will not be usable below about 55 degrees and the glue, wood and air must be kept above that temperature for 48 hours at least.
Oil based and waterborne finishes will not work below about 60 degrees. The secondary reactive process will be greatly slowed or stopped. Again the temperature must be maintain for 3-4 days for proper curing.
Shellac and lacquer can be applied at lower temperature but most recommend no lower than 40 degrees.
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