Replies

1. 
   DougU | May 21, 2006 07:08am | #1

   Prof

   53734.48 , Click on this, I didnt read all of it just found the one.

   I've built quite a few sashes but for me to go into a tutorial on it here would take me forever.

   We discussed it over at BT and you might find info there that you can read.

   I had cutters made for my shaper to do the windows that I made.

   YOu ask about how to seal windows to the sash, how about the same way they've been doing it for years, DAP glazing compond 33.

   If your going to make single paine windows the r-value is minimal. I've built some doors using double paine glass, I ordered it that way so it would be sealed.

   Try looking over at the link I provided and if you have more questions feel free to ask. Hopefully you'll get other feedback on this.

   Doug

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/21/2006 12:10 am ET by DougU

1. 
   Ragnar17 | May 22, 2006 08:34pm | #4

   YOu ask about how to seal windows to the sash, how about the same way they've been doing it for years, DAP glazing compond 33.

   Doug,

   I've been told by several small manufacturers that glazing compound (with points) is mechanically insufficient to securely hold double pane units.  If you think of a door, this makes a lot of sense: if the door is slammed shut, the heavy inertia of the insulated glass would bust out the compound, since the thermal unit has so much more mass and inertia than a single sheet of glass.

   Of course, this analogy seems to break down with modern casement sash, since they are typically on cranks and would therefore never slam shut.  Maybe it's just easier for modern manufacturers to use glazing stops rather than points and compound.

1. 
   DougU | May 22, 2006 10:39pm | #6

   OK, I wasnt sure that you were going the route of the double pane, what you and others are saying makes sense.

   When I've made doors with individual lites that were double pane we always held them in with a moulding of some sort.

   Doug

2. 
   jako17 | May 21, 2006 02:37pm | #2

   I have built many windows with true divided lites I use wood stops sealed with caulk.Beware of bedding thermo units in putty as it can attack the seal.Secondly price the individual lites as many glass companies have a minimum charge per lite of 3 or 4 square feet regardless of how small.Lastly note that the muntin bars have to be wider than on single panes to accomodate the spacer bars.This makes a big difference to the look.Hence some manufacturers use a single pane and apply the muntins which I find still does'nt look authentic as the reflection is too coherent.Still the choice is yours.

1. 
   Prof | May 21, 2006 06:45pm | #3

   Thanks for the tips. I have also heard that the glazing can compromise the double panes. As for the muntin bars, they seem to be the real question when deciding how to build the window. Window manufacturers who offer real divided lites (such as Marvin) use modest muntin bars. Do you know if they stabilize the panes with metal clips? Otherwise, I realize you would need to use wider bars to make the window stronger. How wide did you make yours?

1. 
   jako17 | May 23, 2006 03:31am | #7

   The thermos are held in by wooden stop on the outside,bedded and sealed with a THIN application of paintable caulk.Strength is not an issue with coped ends on the muntins.The issue is width, not thickness, of the muntin.It has to cover the height of the spacer bars(Find out what the glazing company uses) and still leave enough wood between the rabates to allow sticking the muntin profile

    

    

    

    

    

3. 
   Ragnar17 | May 22, 2006 08:42pm | #5

   Tom,

   If you're trying to match existing work on an "old" house, have you considered using single glazing?  As a mechanical engineer who's studied heat transfer, I've never been convinced that double glazing is much more than a marketing gimmick.  Sure, you go from R1 to R2, but when your ceilings are at R38 and your walls at R15, R2 still sucks.  ;)

   Seriously though, the real culprit in heat loss is air exchange -- not direct heat transfer.  If you use good weatherstripping to stop the drafts, you'll notice a huge improvement in thermal performance.  Then there's always storm windows, too.

   What is the best method (and offers the best R-value) to seal and secure the glass to the wood?

   I've seen some shops use what amounts to a double-sided tape.  It's black and gooey, but I'm not sure what it's called.  Maybe someone here at the boards knows more about it.

   Good luck on your project!

    

4. 
   acornw | May 23, 2006 11:46pm | #8

   I have made divided light windows and doors professionally for 30 years. It started out fairly primitive but we are now evolved quite a bit (or the sash is, that is) and have developed things for superior performance. Traditional looks, but with modern glue, glass and performance. We also do historic, with the single glazed, pointed in, narrow profile sash as specified, when needed.

   We have custom cutters to do full cope and stick, mortise and tenon throughout, with horizontal muntins coped and tenoned into the stiles, and the vertical bars are coped only. The sticking (profile) is 9/16" for most of our patterns, and that gives clearance on the insulated lights, and covers the spacers inside the glass units. IGU is minimum 1/2" thick. We put the integral molded sticking to the weather, seal the units with urethane gunned sealant, ad wood stops to the interior, also with urethane sealant, and it is super weather tight.  The two 9/16" profiles and 1/4" center yield a muntin bar at 1-3/8" total width - a bit wide, but what it takes to get the performance. 

   Narrow sight line glass units can be made, but are even more pricey than the 3 s/f minimum from any glass supplier.  Insulated glass is the standard in and above the frost belt. Single pane glass, while historic and more versatile to work with, condenses water in the winter and causes other problems.

   Dave S

   http://www.acornwoodworks.com prototype website