Replies

1. 
   mlbfreestyle | Jul 14, 2005 07:21pm | #1

   I would not cross-laminate 1x6 material as you suggest for anything.  The only way you can successfully laminate wood is to have an odd number of layers.  The two outer layers must be oriented in the same direction in order to balance out the tensile forces.  Otherwise, you will end up with horrible warpage.

   I am assuming that you are going to make a frame and panel door.  If so, then cross-laminating is not needed.  The relatively narrow frame members can and should be made out of solid stock with all grain in the same direction.  You could laminate two layers to get the thickness you need but be careful when gluing and clamping so as not to introduce stress into the joint.  Such stress would show up later as a warped piece.

   If you use solid lumber for slab construction, then be prepared for a lot of seasonal movement and dimensional change.

2. 
   Steinmetz | Jul 14, 2005 11:38pm | #2

   TB2, This post was mistaking posted to Scavenger. Scav, ignore it .
   TB@, read it.

   Years ago, it was common practice to build such doors with three layers of tongue and grooved boards The center layer would be of vertical boards, while the two outer 'skins'would be diagonally opposed' No glue!

   After the boards are squared up and clamped,( or temporally tacked.) the doors were 'clinch nailed', using a back up man holding a 'bolster' When the hammered nail struck the bolster, it would bend itself over and 'clinch' the nail flush on both sides. (The bolster should be a chunk of iron the size of a brick.

   If you plan to use hardware, use surface mounted hinges and through bolt three hinges per door. To hide the plyed edges of the door, cut the doors narrow enough to add wood banding all around the door. This can be planed to a neat fit. Use finish nails on the banding and set the nails below the surface so as not to nick the plane's iron.

   Since the tongues and grooves are just a 'snug' fit, The nails keep the door from sagging/warping/racking or swelling. Would last for 100 years too.
   Good luck Scav, ED.

   Edited 7/14/2005 4:44 pm ET by Steinmetz

   
   

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   Edited 7/14/2005 4:50 pm ET by steinmetz

1. 
   sawdust | Jul 15, 2005 02:44am | #3

   Thanks for the advise, just what I was looking for.  Sounds like you might have built a couple of them yourself.  In the last house I built, I used native Oak boards from a friend's sawmill.  Let them dry out in my barn for a couple of years and made all the trim and doors for the interior.  The doors were single panel with the "Z" brace on the back.  Used hand forged hardware and used the same procedure with cut nails.  Long process but it was fun and educational.

   Thanks, TB2

2. 
   Patto | Jul 15, 2005 05:54am | #4

   I have sort of the same problem and a readily available supply of softwood flooring available. My door is an external door to the garage but inside a secure yard.

   What sort of nails? Reckon a shoeing nail would work? this how you hold a shoe onto a horse also, but the hoof is probably a bit softer.

   David

   PS: In Aust often Stein refers to someone fond of the odd cool drink of a cleansing ale - same in your place?

   Edited 7/14/2005 10:55 pm ET by Patto

1. 
   Steinmetz | Jul 15, 2005 07:07pm | #5

   The nails are called (10 penny common) depends on how thick the built up door is? 3/4" + 3/4" =3/4 = 2-1/4'. Use 12 penny common 3") (Having heads)
   Finish nails have no heads. Stein is German for stone or a big mug for bier.
   Ed. (Steinmetz)Edited 7/15/2005 10:44 pm ET by steinmetz

   Edited 7/15/2005 10:45 pm ET by steinmetz

3. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 16, 2005 08:24pm | #6

   I stayed out of this awhile.. Just to see what happened...

   All your responses I'd except.. Well, cept' fer bending over the nails!.. LOL... Good one.. Made my day... (I have doen that on occasion but hid it under more wood!)

   I build custom doors for old houses that 'cannot' be bought unless custom ordered..

   I have stopped doing it cus' I end up in the hole (price wize')...

   Not sure exactly what you are doing or what tools you have..

   You can make some really nice (strong) doors from marine plywood!..
   Frames and panels from the same stock... Or frames a bit thicker..

   Tank have a hard time getting through them if ya got good hinges!

   Just me...

   EDIT:: Or frames a bit thicker..

   What I wanted to say is ... trim of choice in woods of choice... Glued/pinned onto the ply...

   
   

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   Edited 7/16/2005 1:31 pm ET by Will George

1. 
   sawdust | Jul 17, 2005 04:48am | #7

   Like to hear more details from you.  As background, I have a fairly good shop; 10" bench saw, 12" band saw, comb. rotary & belt sander, floor drill press, router bench, 2 ea. 4' x 8' work benches, large assortment of hand and power hand tools.  I have built 4 houses from scratch in my 74 years, including masonery, carpentry, electrical, and plumbing.  These doors will seperate the basement from an area that has large Bilco doors.  It would normally have stairs, but since I already have good access, I decided not to put in stairs.  The doors will be exposed to heat, cold, and dampness but no direct exposure to the outdoor elements.  Want them to look good, provide some insulation, and be tight.  Be interested in further thoughts from you.

   Thanks, TB2

1. 
   WillGeorge | Jul 18, 2005 07:24pm | #10

   TB2.

   You mentioned Bilco doors…. Bomb shelter AND Fire proof? .  Want them to look good, provide some insulation, and be tight. .  LOL… BIG ORDER!

   This is just my thoughts or ramblings probably a better description.

   From your post on your experience it would seem that you could build these doors in your sleep!

   I mentioned using marine plywood because it has ALOT of strength, hardly any movement, never seems to warp, and easy to finish (I LOVE easy to finish!). Especially when using marine grade. However it will cost you. The shipping can get really expensive so I would suggest that you look for it locally. Even exterior grade veneer plywood can work but never the quality of the marine grade. Although you pay for that quality.<!----><!---->

   Just one link and you can find hundreds out on the net…

   http://www.marine-plywood.us/pricing.htm

   <!----> <!---->

   Most of the doors I have made were solid wood using common Tongue and Groove or sometimes modified Cope and Stick joints (which I always try to avoid in exterior or larger doors). Many doors I have made used solid wood for the rails and stiles and plywood for the panels. (Almost all of the doors were on ‘older’ homes and sometimes quite thick. Sometimes even 3 or 4 inches thick with EDIT:: had TO Hand.. made locks and hinges!) So I have to do some strange things to make it look nice and still fit the old frames. I try my best to NEVER get into changing the frames!

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   I think most door manufacturers use dowels and not Tongue and Groove. Which is OK for you to use but it is just not my style (Nothing wrong with it though). Using dowels CAN save you time if you have a good jig or whatever method you use to drill for them. Large doors will need big dowels so I would think you would need to make some kind of jig to get good alignment and use brad point drills (or better yet) use a Forstner bit.

   <!----> <!---->

   Teak or Mahogany (solid or Ply) is what I usually use unless the customer wanted something specific. Mahogany is WONDERFUL. Teak can be a bummer sometimes!<!---->

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   Using plywood can make the build really quick for the basic structure but it can tie up a lot of time doing the trim so it looks like common door construction (If you care about that.). As you already know, you can do almost anything with plywood. To me what takes the most thought is what to do about the ‘edge’ trim and holding hinges. Most ‘solid’ construction doors will come in or over 120 pounds so you need GOOD hinges.<!---->

   <!----> <!---->

   I NEVER Veneer edge band the Ply. I always use a deep tongue and groove with Epoxy and solid wood (Protect that surface you have to stain!). Just me.

   <!----> <!---->

   Deep is more for the hinge side of the doors so you have good wood to screw into. If the door is REALLY going to be heavy I usually epoxy in at least three steel plates that is drilled and tapped for stainless machine screws. (Yes, they are drilled and tapped AFTER construction, not before installing the door!). It could be REALLY hard to correct!.. LOL…

   <!----> <!---->

   By the way..  If I made a door and the customer was really nice I’d put in a small inlay someplace that seemed (to me) to fit the style or theme of the house or customer.

   Though, I once had to do a door over because they did NOT like my inlay.. Geeeee.. Damn…

   <!----> <!---->

   As far a insulation for a front door.. I’m not that sure what is really proper.

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   On my garage shop I made some old ‘Carriage’ style doors.. Well, just a two car garage.. Marine Plywood, Hardwood trim outside, inside plain.. I glued ½ inch Ply on each side of rigid 2 inch foam.. (I think it could be used for a foundation for a house.) Yes I think you really should have a air space BUT???...

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   After glue up I routed out the edges of foam and epoxied in hardwood between the Ply.. Seems warm ??? Well, <!----><!----><!---->Chicago<!----><!----> here and no heat in the shop so I wonder?.. If really cold out there I go back in the house!

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   All in all, I think it all boils down to what you want. The design is the hard part! Just when using Ply would have many more options because of the movement problems with solid wood.

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   Again, Just me!

   Edited 7/18/2005 12:39 pm ET by Will George

4. 
   Steinmetz | Jul 17, 2005 11:01pm | #8

   TB2, a pair of doors that size would need two doors at 27" in width. how about making the active door 36" and the inactive 18"?moving large items would be easier and building codes require at least 36"

   Of course, opening BOTH doors can always be an option. Steinmetz.

1. 
   sawdust | Jul 17, 2005 11:53pm | #9

   Good idea, although the surrounding layout lends itself better to two doors of the same size.  Since it has low usage and doesn't go through to anywhere, opening both doors when I want to move stuff is not a problem.

   Thanks