Hi all
Well winter is just about here.
I have an spare upright freezer I’ve put in my shop.
I plan to store paint, glue, etc. in it (Nice shelves and well insulated).
I plan to put a light in the bottom to keep everything warm (I only heat the shop when I’m in it).
The shop can get quite chilly at night (close to freezing).
Anyone have any idea how large a bulb will be needed to keep it warm.
I can do this by experimentation and a thermometer, but hope some one has already tried this and can give a good start point.
Thanks all
Jeff
Replies
Jeff
I cannot speak from experience, but I can tell you that if the seals are still good on that freezer for frig that either heat or cold will stay their awhile. That's if you don't excessively open and close the door.
We had an ice storm several years ago and the power was out for three days. Surprisingly, most things in my frig did not spoil by just adding some outside ice in a pan in the bottom.
I am not sure of the watt or type of bulb that would be most suitable for that application. Will pass on that and allow someone that may have been there to reply. If we have any chicken farmers out there, they could answer as bulbs are used at night for new-borns. ha..ha..
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jeff,
Any type of bulb will do, so you might as well use an ordinary light bulb, a heat lamp bulb isn't needed. I'd experiment with a 100 watt bulb or smaller to start and you probably have one in that size around the house.
Without a thermostat to control the heat, the box will be warmer at milder temperatures and cooler when the shop is exceptionally cold. If the box will be holding glues or finishes that would be ruined if they froze, you might use two smaller bulbs, that way if one burned out the other would probably still keep the box from freezing.
John W.
I'd start off with one 40 watt bulb. If that doesn't keep it warm enough, either go up in wattage or add another bulb.
I lived in the tropics for a lot of years -- 100 % humidity, rain 200 days every year, and 90 degrees plus temperatures. I was responsible for keeping a bunch of high - tech electronic machines working, and a "dry box" was essential. I usually built a box a couple of feet wide, 24 to 30 inches deep, and 6 feet tall, or so. These boxes weren't well made, and weren't sealed as well as a 'fridge or freezer.
In spite of that, two 40 watt bulbs kept everything inside dry and warm to the touch. The cooks in the camp even put the salt and sugar as well as the matches inside to keep them dry.
In any case, whatever size bulb you start with, I'd be sure and check every 4 - 6 hours for the first couple of days to see how hot it really is inside your "box". If you don't have any exterior air coming in, you'll be surprised how quickly things warm up.
Hope this helps,
Henry
A 40 or a 50W bulb will generate a lot og heat. I did the same but as a hot box fpr welding rod. Ended up putting a thermostat on it. Got too hot. I only wanted 100/110 degrees. I used a pair of 50W bulbs. I also put a thermometer thru the side wall so that I could read internal temps externally.
Come up with a gaurd for your bulb(s). You have flamable liquids and explosive vapors in your box. Think in terms of what if.
How about thermostaticly controlled pipe heat tape(s) strung thru or taped / cemented to the walls of the freezer. Put the plug thru he wall of the freezer and seal the hole. Or you could leave a hole to vent the vapors.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Hi all again
All good ideas.
The freezer is only 5 years old, so the seals and everything are almost new.
I need to be careful not to ruin the unit, as my Mother-in-law would kill me. While she probably will never want it back (she hasn't used it for years), I don't want anything to make her mad at me (family politics, you know).
I will set up 2 small lights on the bottom (maybe 25 watts to start) with a thermostat to prevent overheating.
I'll protect the lights in some way and make sure no vapors are floating around (somehow).
All these ideas are from you guys, so it was a great idea to ask here.
One final note, I know someone who raises chickens, so I'll ask her about how much wattage she uses (I would have never thought of this without you.)
Thank you for the great ideas
Jeff
Jeff,
There are numbers out there to help you but I can't find them. In a freezer like you have the heat loss is probably in the neighborhood of 1-2 BTU's per cubic foot/per hr/degree. The next issue is the delta between the internal and external temperature....for VT I would think something in the 50-60 delta degrees whould be adequate. So if you have 10 cubic feet of space, times 55 degree change...about 550 btu's per hour...what I don't know is the BTU output for various bulb wattages....but that info is out there... One last minor point...a full freezer will require less than an empty one....air is harder to heat .
Remember, if the bulb takes too much modification to the freezer, you could more or less achieve the same results with a box that had 4" thick rigid insulation...T&G stuff.
Edited 11/23/2003 11:28:12 AM ET by BG
Hi BG
I knew there was a number somewhere, just didn't know where.
I was gonna build a box, but the freezer was free (hay, free is free).
I'll probably take some of the extra porcelon (spelling?) fixtures and mount them on a piece of plexiglass with feet for the lights. I'll double stick a thermostat about midway and wire it all together.
The freezer already has a metal shelf near the bottom, so the lights will be protected.
I pretty much have everything in stock around here, so I don't expect to spend any money setting this up.
The great thing about this is getting all the stuff out of my house into one place.
If you come across that number and know how to calculate the loss, let me know.
I'll probably go the experimentation route, knowing the thermostat won't let anything cook.
Thanks for all the help
Jeff
Jeff,
A water bed heater thermostat would work quite well I think. I used one with an OSB box that held two 5 gal carbouys (home brewing). Smaller box but same principal. Worked great and can be gotten real cheap. Good luck!
Mack
Hello,
one method that might work that doesn't use a light bulb is the cable you can get from a plumbing supply that is used to wrap pipes in a pier & beam construction. You plug in the cable. You could string the cable in a snake like pattern under or through the shelves and have a more even heat. It might be safer if you had any fumes in there.
Chuck
I am doing just that w/ an old fridge. took compressor out & evaporator coil off. W/ the 40 watt regular bulb in it, gets up to ruound 80* so far. did put some alum. duct tape at the seal & pulled the plug out the bottom so it wouldn't go sour. I got some condensation in the freezer box, put a bit of tape at the seal area there.......just enough to let a little air in. Still keep heat in / cold out tho.
Did you use a thermostat?
And, how cold is the shop.
Didn't want to use heat tape, as I didn't have any around.
Jeff
Jeff,
An easy solution would be to disable the freezer's automatic light switch (the button that pops out and turns the light on when the door is open. The unit will in permanent light is on mode. Swap the original bulb for one of the correct wattage, and you're in business. You may be able to just pop the light switch out and disconnect the wires - just be sure to cap off the exposed wires to prevent any electrical disasters!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Hi Dan
Thought about that, but was worried that the socket would melt.
Freezer lights are not normally on all the time.
Jeff
I did what Dan suggested, was junk fridge, so disabled the switch, removed compressor & evap. coil. pulled drain plug, opened gaskets up just enuf to let it breathe inside. garage is no heat at this time........just a couple of halogen bulbs. Live just north of Flint, MI. Do not forsee any freeze in it at all.
Jeff,
Flint, MI goes to -10, -20 degrees frequently in the winter....
Ouch
And I thought we had it bad.
My heater in the shop turns on (normally, but not always) at 7am till 9am automatically.
If I'm working in there, I flip the switch to keep it on (this saves me from forgetting and heating the space for no reason,)
The shop is cold, but really never below freezing (yes it's insulated), so I don't need to have alot of heat in the freezer.
Jeff
Jeff,
I agree regarding a possible socket or plastic melting situation. A solution would be to install a new socket and electrical wires. Depending on how your freezer is wired, you may be able to clip off the old socket, tie off the old wires to new ones, and use the old ones to pull the new ones through. Or simply replace the original socket with a ceramic or metal one. Whatever you choose, be sure to either reposition or shield the light to protect the surrounding plastic freezer interior.
You may want to look over the inside of the box for any sort of knock-out plug, (for an optional freezer accessory). With luck, there'll be one and you can run lighting wire through there.
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Edited 11/25/2003 1:04:33 AM ET by Jackie Chan
If the bulb in it's original socket is left on for any long length of time the surrounding plastic to the light WILL MELT.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Imeric,
I agree - I had recommended to Jeff that he either reposition or shield the light from the surrounding plastic.Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
That bulb idea is going to need a sealed jelly jar at a minimum... Can you say explosion proof. Serious shielding required here.
Vapors, liquids and so much plastic. That freezer might end up in the neighbors living room 4 doors down and take the shop with it. So many finishes have such a low flash point it's not funny.
What if it gets so hot in his box that that lac is made to seep out of it's can. So much for that investment and every thing around it.
The heat tape is a better idea. Less risk. cheaper to operate.
It's flat. Close the door on it.
He only needs 50 / 60 degrees.
Thermostat built in.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
I have a remote temp/humidistat in my kiln inside my garage. Works great as I can see what temp and humidity the kiln is right from the kitchen. cost about 50 bucks from radio schack. You can also add other remote units to it to check temp in more than one location.
TonyWe already have enough youth, how about a fountain of smarts.
How about using a Thermocube( thermostatically controlled outlet) - connected to the bulb socket with an insert. The Thermocube turns on the outlet at 35 F and shuts off at 50 F. The heat source could be a heat tape or a light bulb. If temps do not go above 50 F what is the likelihood of vaporizing volatiles. I do not offhand know the bp of lacquer thinner or other volatiles although acetone(bp 57 C) based products might be dicey. The problem with many of these is that they vaporize below their boiling point.
I am considering a similar set up for my water based paints etc. Do the stains, oil based varnishes et. al. need to be stored above freezing? Paul Tackes
I've noticed Lac and Acetone vaporizing at freezing temps. Then there is MEK and MLK.
The heat idea is great. My thoughts are it has to be sealed from any potential problems. It can't get to and nothing can get to it. No matter how you look at it. "What if" has to be the lead thought process.
Feed a thermocouple thru the condensation drain. Put the contactor on the outside of the box. Electric range/oven controls are cheap.
BING! Run the freezer and set the resident temp control and set it for the warmest possible setting. Done.
Go here and look at their controls. Lots to look at and choose from. http://www.johnstonesupply.com Start at heaters and heating then go into controls.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Hi all
My wife saw the thread this morning.
She gave me a thermostatically controlled heating mat for starting seedlings.
All sealed in rubber and waterproof.
Doesn't get too hot or the seeds cook.
I'm putting it in the freezer (with a thermometer) to see how it works.
Total cost so far: 0
Good deal.
If it works well, I'll just buy one for me when she needs it back in February.
Will let everyone know how it works.
Jeff
Jeff...next year..lets do a root cellar....lol
BG
No, I was thinking of something more complicated.
jeff
BG
Another thought.
Next summer I can turn on the freezer (up high) and keep cold drinks in it.
Jeff
Jeff,
Nice thought...but if those cold drinks have metal caps..each should be grounded...and when you open them..make sure there are no 1 micron size dust particles that could be blown into your lungs...
For God's sake, move south so we can build something....lol
BG
Actually, as of today, I'll be finished organizing the new addition to my shop.
No, the place won't be totally finished, but usable. (I'll still need to move things around to clean-up somemore and close the walls up with panaling.)
This about doubles my available space and gives me a seperate clean finish room.
Ahh... space, the final frontier
Happy thanksgiving
Jeff
Jeff,
Sounds wonderful...space, more toys..and a seperate finish room, wow!
I store my plywood cutoffs on top of the oil tank (250 gal.). I broke the due hickey that tells you how full the tank is...now with each fill up...I get to enjoy the smell of #2 heating oil for a few days..
But today, it the smell of Turkey..all day long..have a happy...
They make a special bulb to put in a gun sfe to keep things warm enough to prevent rusting. It might be worth looking at that.
Thank you
Hi all
I guess a small question is in order after this.
Do I need to keep warm any finishes that use a solvent.
Usually the solvent is good to below freezing?
Jeff
Every container of anything you have will tell you what ever it is that need to know.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
Hi Jeff,
I wired two bulbs in series, this appears to reduce the wear on the lamps!
Regards Len.
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