Replies

1. 
   BG | May 13, 2003 02:31am | #1

   Matthew,

   There are better on here to address your questions, but let me make a few comments and let others drill deeper.  First, you can properly square up your lumber with hand planes.  If your initial projects are going to be small its a great way to go.  Second, the thickness measurement of a board is the green wood thickness...in the drying process it looses about 1/4" in thickness...and then it gets planed flat....so a 5/4 board may be 4/4 when dry and 13/16ths when planed.  This is how hardwood is measured.

   S2S qould be the way for you to go initially, still measure thickness and hit with a #5 Jack Stanley if needed.  You can buy an old stanley for about $35.

   ebay auctions a lot of wood...good luck  

   PS. are you anywhere near western Minnosota...there is a guy named Frenchy who will load you up with wood cutoffs...lol

   
   

   ---

   Edited 5/12/2003 7:33:05 PM ET by BG

2. 
   ron61 | May 13, 2003 02:40am | #2

   You may try a Cabinet Shop. You might want to pick up some Fresh Doughnuts on the go early" right about break time" in the morning while the Fresh Doughnuts are still warm  ask to see the supervisor and see what kind of a deal you can get on some scrap.

   Depending on where you go they will have lots of cut offs they will not use" every time you start a job you have cut offs - ends left off off boards and you just cant use them all". Might just get all you can carry. It would be good for small stuff.

   UMMM FRESH DOUGHNUTS

   Fresh Doughnuts will make you friends fast in a Cabinet Shop and might just get you  a deal on some lumber.

   I know it would where I work.

   also check the dumpster before you leave

   UMMM FRESH DOUGHNUTS

   Red Oak that they use where I work cost them under $2.00 brd. ft. but they use 2000 to 4000 in a month + other hardwoods.

   I bought some pretty nice FAS 13/16 thick Walnut last summer for $3.00 brd. ft.

   the last Red Oak I bought I paid 1.65 brd.ft. Hard Maple I think was $1.35

   Cherry is up around $4.00 or better

   Hey but I work there and they sell it to me at their cost.

   FRESH DOUGHNUTS about break time might help get you  a deal

   I guess I have it pretty good I cut out  all the hardwood so when I need something I select out what I want till I have enough stock the matches like I want.

   UMMM FRESH DOUGHNUTS.

3. 
   forestgirl | May 13, 2003 06:07am | #3

   I think I'm right with this:  4/4 in rough lumber is going to be 1" thick.  However, if it's planed on each side it's going to be less than 1".  I bought some white oak last week, out of the 4/4 stack, planed on each side but rough edges, and it was about 3/4" thick.  Was I taken?  dunno!  Since I paid plainsawn price for quartersawn stock, I didn't challenge anyone on it.

   You can use your tablesaw or router to produce "jointed" edges that are 90*s to the face and nice and clean.  To use the router you either fasten a straight-edge to the board and run the base along that, or use a pattern bit (bit with a bearing), and run a straight-edged template just inside the edge you're jointing.  Any good router book will have one or both of these procedures in it.  Obviously, you need to start with a fairly straight edge to begin with (circular saw or tablesaw) and not take off a big amount of stock in one pass.

   If you buy S2S instead of S2S 1E, you can joint one edge straight by fastening a straight edge to the board, and using that straight edge against the fence.  There have been a number of posts about using that technique, and again it's described in the good tablesaw books.  Or, you can use a circular saw and follow with a router.

   To get a truly fine edge while ripping like this you'll need a super-good saw blade.  Look for the term "glue-line rip" but be sure and get one that can handle the thickness of the material your working on.

   As far as finding lumber goes, where are you located?  I often see threads here title "Where to find lumber in XYZ, State" and people respond with local knowledge.  In the Seattle and Kitsap Peninsula areas there are at least 3 hardwood lumber stores that cater to the broad spectrum of buyers.  I bought less than 20BF of white oak and got superb service (they laid out the cuts for me even!) to the big guys who buy hundreds of BF.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   AlanTurner | May 13, 2003 03:42pm | #4

   I'm sure there are conventions on rough stock thickness, but what ever they are I do not know.  My experience is that 4/4 stock is, when dried, 1" thick, but by the time you get rid of the sawmill marks, you should finish at 13/16" min.  I second FG's comments about your location.  If you post an area where you are located, those here will gladly share their favorite mills/stores/yards. 

   If you are near southeastern Pa., I'll give a recommendation.  I have developed a good relationsip with Groff & Groff, in Quarryville, Pa, and now, if I need standard stuff (like if I run short a bit), I just call them, and they ship UPS to me in Philadelphia.  I pay the UPS charge, but save 3 hours of round trip driving.  I buy all of my stock in the rough, but they have a wonderful 12" Northfield jointer, and a sharp 30" planer.  If you talk to them on the phone, I think they would be glad to joint first, then plane, then edge.  They will charge for this, but not much.  Groff & Groff is not on the web, but does have an 800 #.  I am just starting a pair of bedside tables, with cabriole legs, and will use 12/4 mahogany for the leg stock.  I ordered wood for 8 legs, 3 x 3, 27" clear length, rift sawn.  It will arrive tomorrow, and be perfect.  The rest of the stock I have already.  Were I Gene Langdon (and I am not !!!), that 3 hours (180 minutes) would translate into 9 legs, @ 20 min. each.  (Just re-read all of the cabriole leg articles in FWW over the past 28 years, and this is what he claimed, and I am sure he was not puffing.)  I think mine will take a bit longer.  Quite a bit.

   A second idea is a benchtop planer, which for surfacing can in fact get a board dead flat, with the right jigs, sleds, etc.  About $300 or so, and you will be able to buy in the rough.  I did this for years before retooling.  At least the Delta that I had had disposable knives, which were indexed off of pins, so that changing knives was both cost effective, quick, and accurate.  Just a thought.

1. 
   RW | May 14, 2003 02:05am | #10

   I'm sure there are conventions on rough stock thickness, but what ever they are I do not know.  My experience is that 4/4 stock is, when dried, 1" thick, but by the time you get rid of the sawmill marks, you should finish at 13/16" min

   Give yourself credit. Surfaced 2 sides, 13/16" is the standard.

   "The child is grown / The dream is gone / And I have become / Comfortably numb "      lyrics by Roger Waters

1. 
   AlanTurner | May 14, 2003 01:56pm | #11

   Thanks; lucky guess. 

   To the posters seeking cherry, $5.95 is steep to me.  I think for FAS, Groff is $4.60  for 4/4, and 5.60 for 4/4, 10" to 13".  This is in the rough, but Groff's posted price for S3S is 30 cents a b.f., but you would need to spec jointing first, and there might be another dime a foot for that.   For cherry, I would prefer to go there and select it myself to eliminate sapwood, etc.  I think a better buy, depending upon what you need, and the tools to handle it, is the common at $2.25, and get a flitch.  You will have knots that are not useable, but you will get shorter wides, at 3 - 5 feet, and it is rare for me to need a wide (or any other board) any longer.   Irion is wonderfully regarded, but I have not yet used them.  I would want to go up there and select, at least the first time, and it is about 3-4 hours north of here, I suspect.

4. 
   Len | May 13, 2003 05:46pm | #5

   "2)I do not need a lot of lumber for my first projects.....no one wants to deal much with me due to the small order and such.....are there any online places to buy that are more friendly to specialty orders?"

   What type of wood are you considering? I hate to say this but if it's only a small amount and your using oak or maple you can go to the big orange box. Prices are alright and you dont have to do anything but dig through the stack. (Yuck, I said it...) If your looking for other types do a google search for hardwood and your location and see what pops up. I have a local cabinet shop who will order hardwood for me with his regular orders. I pay with cash and donuts. (Donuts really do work.)

   "3)In terms of thickness....I guess the one by or 4/4 is actually 3/4"....and 8/4 is 1 3/4" thick?  That is the S2S stuff anyway.  OR is is some obscure thickness like 3/4 is 13/16" or something like that?"

   Hardwood is measured in it's rough state (4 equals a 1/4 inch). 4/4 = 1", 8/4 = 2" etc. A big lumber mill takes off a 1/8 per side, that's pretty much the standard. They don't need to check every board to see if it's surfaced clean. (Saves time and money.) If you surface a board yourself you can get a thicker piece, sometimes. Long way of saying, yes, as a rule of thumb.

   Good luck,

   Len

1. 
   forestgirl | May 13, 2003 06:09pm | #7

   Digging through stacks:  I've given in and done this (or tried to) several times at Home Depot.  Never had any luck at all!  Either everything they get is cr*p, or someone there is picking through before it gets to the shelves (employees:  "Who, me?")forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   RoyinMD | May 13, 2003 07:50pm | #8

   Thats strange, the last few times I looked at solid wood at my local HD they had plenty of beautiful white oak and maple, some with some nice figure. But the prices, man! I don't buy my wood there unless there is a piece calling my name.

   Enjoy, Roy

5. 
   twoodward15 | May 13, 2003 05:59pm | #6

   Hey Bud,  Where do you live???  I notice a lot of new guys don't post where they live on this forum.  It can actually help you out a lot.  If you live near me and need wood, and it's just a small amount, I might GIVE it to you.  Heck, I'd even let you come over and run it through my planer and jointer!!  You would be very surprised at what you could get from the people around here.  I notice that I seem to give away wood when people ask me for a small amount.  I gave about 12 bd feet of white oak away last week, I give walnut away, and cherry too (when I have enough)!

1. 
   matthewlanebryan | May 14, 2003 01:57am | #9

   Thanks for all the replies..... I live in Lake Charles, Louisiana and I am wanting to build a valet like this one....

   http://www.bombaycompany.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10051&storeId=10051&productId=22171&topCategoryId=10106&categoryId=10192&langId=-1&siteId=core

   but with my own design and style.  I would like to build it out of cherry if I can.  My local bix box stors do not carry cherry or any wood that I want to use right now.  There is a place that I talked to yesterday that was very nice and helped answered my questions.  They said they sell cherry S4S at 5.95$/board ft.  I do not know if this is high or not.....he said it was FAS and select grades......and I am assuming that is good stuff on one side.  From what I understand by reading here that even the S2S and S4S, though planed is not necessarily smooth and flat.  (isn;t that what I am paying for??????!)  So I guess I will get some and contact my local wood club to pay for some jointer/planer time.

   Again thanks for all the information.......I am new at this game and trying to enjoy a hobie with a limited number of tools.