I AM SETING UP A SHOP IN MY GARAGE, MY FIRST TO MACHINES THAT I WOULD LIKE TO GO FOR ARE A TABLE SAW, MAYBE A HYBIRD.
NEXT I WANTED A DRAW MITER SAW, I HAD SOME IDEAS AND STARTED LOOKING , I SURE WOULD LIKE SOME PROFESIONAL FEEDBACK.
I AM ONLY A AMATURE BUT LIKE GOOD TOOLS, I FEEL THE BETTER TOOL WILL MAKE UP FOR CRAFTMANSHIP THAT I DONT HAVE AS YET.
I AM SOME WHAT USE TO WORKING WITH TOOLS, AS I HAVE A COLLISION REPAIR SHOP GOING ON FORTY YEARS THIS APRIL.
Replies
Make your first purchase a keyboard that can do lowercase as well as uppercase.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
Don,
Taint no worsen these young Podders who 'breviate everything so much ye caint unnerstan what they're sayin! AND, they don't know what the Shift key is fer neether.
'Sides that why'd them dorks put the CapsLock key where tis anway?
Fergit 'bout they grammuh,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
P.S. Looka here, had to eedit the thang 3 times!
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/2/2009 8:21 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 1/2/2009 8:23 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Edited 1/2/2009 8:23 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Buy em books and send em to school and all they do is eat the teacher! :) Savages I tell ya!! The barbarians have made it inside the gate!!
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Gr8. U sed it. LOL.
C U L8R
Thank you for your response, I did not know you were so talented as to MULTI TASK!!!
THANK YOU
FASDICK
I just saw this post. What does caps have to do with real life?
Readability.
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Readability.
Ypu got me on that onz! But wesss and read almost anything in our languagauungauges with just a few key words?
What sort of things are you going to make?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
~ Denis Diderot
and maybe a few interior doors.
If all goes well I would like to make new rasied panel kitchen cabinet doors. Thank You Fasdick
Do you want to make the moulding yourself ?
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Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
I have used an old Sears contractor's table saw since 1969, and put machined pulleys and a link belt on it, swapped a 1hp motor that I could switch over to 220V. It has been very good. There may be many old saws out there that can be tweaked to do a great job. I added a JoinTech fence system.
A good 3hp plunge router that you can mount into a table is wonderful. There are all kinds of things that you can do with it, from moulding to joinery, to jointing an edge. Look at the jigs and accessories that can be added.
I suggest buying good quality blades and bits. Buy blades according to the equipment used, kind of cut and kind of material being cut. I am referring to number of teeth, shape of teeth, hook angle of teeth. I would recommend for router bits that you will use many many times, to look at Amana insert carbide type. For more infrequent use go with regular brazed carbide. When you are doing 2 router bit sets for male-female joints, I really recommend American or Israeli or European brands. The cheap Asian imports may not be indexed well for a good fit.
If you should want to make cabinets, take a look at the Kreg Jig for pocket hole joinery. It is easy and strong. Buy some of their videos to learn how to use this method.
Festool is really great tools but spendy. The random orbit sander is really good with the center vacuum hole, but you are almost stuck with buying expensive discs. I really want their plunge skill saw for my panel saw use.
A decent drill press, older even, is fine but add a home made table with fence and hold downs to it. Buy good brad point drill bits.
Dick:
You didn't say what your budget was, nor what you intend to make; however, you called it your "dream" shop. So here goes!
I would avoid the typical "american" table saw in favor of a "euro" slider - much safer and you are more likely to keep all all your fingers attached to your hand. If space is tight consider a combination machine such as MiniMax, Felder or Robland.
If you don't get the 4 way combo, then consider the 12" or 16" jointer/planer combo. It's really nice to run 15" boards over your jointer.
Get a good bandsaw such as Laguna LT16 HD with driftmaster fence.
Invest in a good dust collection say a 2 or 3 HP Super Gorilla from Oneida.
Get a Lie Nielsen block plane, a shoulder plane and a decent set of chisels and learn how to sharpen.
Round out your shop with a range of Festool goodies, such as Domino, ETS 150 sander, Jigsaw and vacuum. Instead of the traditional workbench, think about the Festool multi function table with assorted clamps. Oh!, nearly forgot the Kapex SCM saw.
With all that, you'll now be able to make anything with safety and accuracy; you will not be able to blame poor results on your equipment and you'll never have to upgrade.
Good luck
Hastings
PS Agree with dgreen on that keyboard
as a hobbyist I've built up my shop over years. Saving and buying one at a time as I could. I've not bought top of the line in some tools and others I waited and saved. If I had it to do over, I'd do it the same way.
For TS,BS and Jointer, I went with Grizzly. The fit finish and quality are great and the value (IN my Opinion) are fantastic. I have the 10" Cabinet saw. Go ahead and get the cabinet saw you won't regret it. They take the same space as a Contractor saw, but will take 220. Do it if you can. I also have their 17" HD band saw and its been great. The new model of the same saw is even better. I have the 12" jointer fantastic as well. I have several Lie-niesen Planes none better. I would suggest a planner as well to your inventory for taking stock down. I have a 12" portable (makita) that I've had for eons that has served me well. There are many other brands out there that will get the job done as well some cheaper, some much more expensive. Enjoy the craft, it sure helps me forget about the stresses of the day and have a great time. Take care.
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I suggest you think about what your first few projects will be. Get your basic tools together for these jobs and go from there.
If your making a cabinet the the bandsaw won't be needed but you will need a table saw. Maybe a miter saw for the frames or crown molding. Build a cutting table for cutting up the plywood sheets. Outfeed/storage table for the table saw.
Maybe a drill press for drilling the hinge holes if euro style.
Most workshops are a slow build and you get what you need as you pick what to make.
I keep thinking about a lath and have needed one 3 times in twenty years. I'm still resisting and so far so good. My bandsaw collects dust, my jigsaw does the job most of the time.
For a joiner I set up my router table. I don't buy rough wood as passed experience showed me I scraped too much material and time.
Who gives the best value for your money? Thats a tough one as most of us only have one of what we use.
Go to http://www.liwoodworkers.org. We've got a meeting this Wed. and you may find it of interest. Lots of good guys to give you lots of good info. Ask for me (SawdustSteve) and I'll talk to you and get you connected to some guys who will give you ideas. No secret handshake needed at the door... we always welcome visitors.
STARTER HAND TOOLS: a couple of good try squares, tape measure marking gauge and an accurate 12 or 24" steel rule, 7, 10, and 16 oz. hammers and the list goes on and on.
STARTER MACHINES.... tablesaw, bandsaw, drill press and router, ROS (Random Orbit Sander) to begin with. Depending on your projects, a lathe, sliding compound miter saw can be added. It all depends on what you're planning to build and how big your garage is. If you're into small jewelry boxes, you need different tools than if you're planning on building a complete dining room set. (Definitely NOT recommended as a first project) Do a bunch of reading and decide where you would like to start. There lots of good books in the local library with lots of good ideas.
SawdustSteve
Personally I way prefer crosscutting on a table saw with a shop-made sled than on a miter saw. Maybe not compound angles so much . . . but to me a jointer, planer or bandsaw would be a much more useful second tool. Just something to considerf.
Brian
FAS ,
A good TS is a must , a new hybrid or imo a used Unisaw or Powermatic will stand the test of time which the jury is still out on all these newer versions , will they last as long ?
I really find the Makita sliding 10" compound miter saw to be a very fine tool extremely accurate .
You say you are an amateur , so you have some ww experience not sure how much but I will tell you this , the worlds best tools and equipment will never make up for lack of experience , don't be fooled by that thought .
" knowledge without experience is simply information "
Mark Twain
regards dusty, a boxmaker
What is exactly a hybrid table saw? I think a hybrid automobile is one that will run on different types of fuel(could be wrong on that),but a table saw?????----WW 57
WW,
Kinda like a contractors saw on caffein or a wannabe cabinet saw.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 1/11/2009 9:12 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
I have been woodworking off and on for close to 30 years. I am on my 4th table saw. I just gave my 10 year old Delta contractor's saw to a friend and bought a SawStop cabinet saw. I was considering buying the SawStop contractors saw when my wife told me that I would not be happy with it in a few years and would want the cabinet saw. She was right as much as I hate to admit it. I am on my 5th band saw. Same story, I should have bought a better one earlier.The point is buy the best tool you can. Most of the tools I own now will outlast me. They would have outlasted me if I bought them 15 or 20 years ago. Someone on this blog said they were too poor to buy cheap tools. Amen, brother.Domer
Domer,
I think one of the dogmas of woodworking is that it is easy to buy something that after using it for a while you find that it's just not right for what you want it to do. Perhaps tablesaws and bandsaws are good examples of this - you tend to outgrow them over time.
To me the flip side of this is that you gain experience from them such that you really appreciate the capabilities of the heavier iron. When you get to the point of making compromises with a machine I think upgrading becomes a viable solution.
For example, when you find that you need to use thin kerf blades on a tablesaw because of a lack of power it might be high time to consider an upgrade. There may also be other reasons for using TK blades but lack of power is usually one reason.
All things considered I do believe that whatever you buy you should always buy the best you can afford. I've fond that if you take this approach it improves your ROI (Return On Investment).
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Dusty, " knowledge without experience is simply information " Mark Twainvery apt. says it all.get to work, it's going to be sunny all week :)Boiler
I am an amatuer as well, and have spent the last several years building up my shop so that I could buy what I wanted. I bought things when I needed them for a projects, and thus aquired things in a somewhat odd order. For instance, I bought a PM Floor Mortiser while I was still using a Craftsman 9" Benchtop Tablesaw from the 50's. I finally bought a SawStop, when I felt I could no longer work "around" the little saw. When it came time to build my maple workbench, the little Craftsman wasn't even an option.
My philosophy is that I would rather grow INTO a tool than out of a tool. Although please do not do yourself the disservice of thinking that better tools will make up for a lack of craftsmanship. On the contrary, you may not even appreciate the differences until you have some experience. That said, experienced craftsman, can make due, and produce beautiful work with anything. The "luxury" that us hobbyists have is that we do not have to justify every purchase and weigh its cost versus what the profitability of the end result will be. We all have a budget, but how we budget items is different for pros versus ametuers. Part of the enjoyment of the craft (for me certainly) is the escape into the shop and the ability to have your tools work properly without having to endlessly adjust, repair and otherwise overcome their shortcomings.
Another instance is my lathe. I considered buying an old lathe, a mini lathe, and a few other options. I finally bit the bullet and bought the PM 3750, and couldn't be happier with it. In fact, I think it has actually made my entry into turning more enjoyable since my learning curve is a little less frustrating with a rock-solid lathe that doesn't walk all over the floor, and has almost infinitely adjustable speed.
Depending on what you plan to build, a tablesaw or bandsaw should be number one, and will probably be the workhorse of your shop. A miter saw, though very useful, could probably wait if you have any kind of circular saw to cut things to manageable lengths. Finishing crosscuts are usually done on the TS anyway. I think the tool(s) that really expand woodworking the most (they did for me) is the jointer/planer team. They should be on the short list, as they really open up new dimensions (pun intended) in the preperation of lumber. In fact, with a good bandsaw/jointer/planer, you can turn just about anything from logs to recycled timber into prepered stock for your projects.
Sorry for the lost post.
Joe
Joe,
Your post should be framed and mounted on the wall. It says it all, purrfek.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
If you could fill us in on the space you are working with and tool budget, and the type of projects you want to do I think the forum could really be more helpful.
A Euro-slider is great but if you want to make pens and toys there are better options.
Since you have years of experience in a trade you have the advantage of being familiar with a shop and work processes, and what a cheap tool can really cost you.
If you were closer I would love to share experience since I have a classic car that needs attention and know the value of having someone with experience give pointers.
I'm guessing there must be some woodworker nearby that could benefit from your knowledge and be a resource for you as you "learn wood". Kind of like a barter of "saving headaches".
Definitely some differences; fire and hammers aren't as helpful, but you should already know the joys of sanding ;).
Hope we can help.
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