Replies

1. 
   Woodrat1 | Apr 24, 2009 03:25pm | #1

   Hi Pete,

   While I don't know a whole lot about this - I'll share what I do know.

   You know you've over heated the steel if the color changes to
   blue along the leading edge being sharpened. You've got to re-grind
   the steel far enough back to get rid of the "blue". From there you
   move on to honing.

   I've seen a video with Mike Dunbar (and others) cool their steel during
   the grinding process by dipping the blade in a cup of water, and then
   continue on with grinding. This speeds the process up considerably.
   I have also heard (from a former director at NBSS in Boston) that cooling
   the steel in water is a big "no-no". The theory being that heating &
   cooling the steel rapidly is not good for the temper.

   This is obviously a related topic that is subject for debate & I look forward
   to reading about in subsequent responses to your post.

   Bill-

2. 
   traveller2 | Apr 24, 2009 07:17pm | #2

   When I buy old chisels, I only buy a few good names. Swan is at the top of the list in either beveled edge or firmers. i also like old buck cast steel and PS&W (Peck Stow and Wilcox). If i'm buying socket chisels, I try and find ones that the socket isn't all banged up on. i don't like removing anymore than about 1/4 inch of the socked if its been peened over. Tang chisels i'm not really perticular about the handles, because I re-handle and re- ferule (sp?) them anyway.

   TX PS

1. 
   Vikingvood | Apr 24, 2009 10:02pm | #4

   Brass City Records still has some New Old Stock Swan Chisels

3. 
   AdamCherubini | Apr 24, 2009 08:05pm | #3

   Look for chisels with long blades.  Chisels whose blades appear to have been shortened due to repeated grinding should be suspect.  Each grinding offered yet another opportunity to ruin the temper or the chisel may not be hardened all the way to the top of the blade.

   Avoid chisels with very distorted or pitted backs.  I prefer thin chisels to very stout carpenter's chisels.  I prefer tanged chisels to socketed chisels generally, but I have both. 

   Older English chisels, stamped with "Cast Steel" are often good quality.  These tools are usually hand forged.  "Drop forged" chisels are often not as nice, but this isn't always the case. 

   Good deals can be had buying chisels with broken or missing handles. 

   No good way to test the temper of an old tool at a flea market.  No way to spot it visually. 

   Chisels can be re-heat-treated fairly easily.  Dunbar's "Restoring, Tuning and Using Classic Hand Tools" has instructions.  Pretty sure annealing is not a necessary step. Some guys think it is.  Critical temp for high carbon steel is high, 1500F will be enough*. Motor oil quench will work for just about any old chisel.  Temper at 400F.

   adam

   *Contrary to popular folklore,  most steels become non-magnetic before they reach their critical temperature.  All steels go non-magnetic at 1350.  Steels above and below .77%C will need more heat to achieve phase change.

1. 
   Bo Tree | Jun 05, 2016 12:50pm | #7

   Always forged

   The term "Cast-steel" is synominous with "Crucible-steel" and is made in a small-pot in the molten state. It was introduced in the late 1700s as an advance on steelmaking with pasty semi-sold routes which produced imhogeneous ie variable steel (with soft-spots) which was also full of slag. Hence it was a great advance. The contents of the pot were reheated and forged or rolled into bar prior to being made into tools.

   This process enabled quality springs to be made for watches and solved navigation issues for sailing-ships via Huntsman's Marine Chronmeter. In short it enabled the foundation of trade-routes and Te British Empire !

4. 
   Samson | Apr 25, 2009 05:53am | #5

   Hey, Pete. I'm kind of a chisel nut. It's such a simple tool, but it can do so much that is so crucial to woodworking.

   While I have occasionally run across a softy, most old steel is fine. Some of it is exceptional, but, trouble is the exceptional ones are not easily identified until you've sharpened and used them. It seems like, even among a generally good brand, some batches of steel or production runs were slightly better. I've talked to lots of professional steel guys who've left me wit the clear impression that there is a good deal of art in the science of making good steel.

   Anyway, names are and aren't all that important. Lots of lesser names were made by the same folks who made the famous ones (i.e., on a contract basis). That said, brands help id something more likely to be good: Swan, Witherby, older Buck, PS&W, older Stanley, Union, Samson, Berg, Greenlee, KeenKutter, DR Barton, and the list goes on and on.

   When I started out looking vintage, I fell in love with the idea of the Stanley everlasting chisels, and managed to find several over time. In the meantime while I was trying to collect a full set of the everlasts, I bought beater 750's. The were cheap since they had chipped lacquer and chewed up leather and splattered paint etc. They were easy to clean up though. I did all my work with them often still do:

   http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3273/2743321060_300f4b2f46.jpg

   Funny thing was, when i started using the everlasts, I hated them. They are top heavy and just generally not as nice to work with as the reclaimed 750's.

   Gradually, I bought many other brands. I found Swan and Witherby to generally have slightly better steel than the 750's, but its a really hard thing to quantify as all of them work as intended when sharp. The Swans and Witherby's seem to be able to get to a slightly higher level of sharpness (don't know why - but assume better finer grain steel) and to hold an edge longer.

   The main thing to avoid in any vintage chisels. of course, is pitting. I'd stay away from any that look like they've been power polished and buffed as that may be a sign the thing was overheated - has dubbed sides and otherwise just looks unnatural.

   Handles are important parts of chisels, but shouldn't be make or break, as it's not difficult to make your own. I recently replaced a new Henry Taylor gouge handle, for example, and I don't even have a lathe:

   http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3543/3457955904_2df9787ce3.jpg

   On my 750's, I just cut off the nub that held the leather washers and rounded over the edges of what was left. Worked out fine.

   Anyway, look out, because once you start, it's hard to stop. It's like potato chips. You'll want a handful of bench chisels, then a handful of long paring chisels, then some gouges, then some specialty chisels for mortising and even carving! Enjoy!!

1. 
   Tony Z | Apr 25, 2009 01:44pm | #6

   Good post.  Seems we've paralleled our chisel journey over the past years and reached many of the same conclusions.  I had more than a few old Stanleys from the days 30 years ago when I worked for a living, but no Everlasts.  After seeing the interest in  Everlasts, I picked up quite of few of those, but in spite of still having a few, I don't like or use them:  they're a carpenter or bench chisel and not really useable for fine work.

   The is a huge variety of quality within brands also.  My favorite vintage (today!) brand is Buck cast steel with the tanged handle.  Some of the Witherby sockets are nearly as good as are the Swans (remember when I say good, that is within the chisels I own and the conditions those chisels were subjected to in their first life).  Also, unless you're buying from a "tool guy", chisels are generally cheap.

   T.Z.