Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Dec 11, 2003 02:20am | #1

   Doc..usually FF,s are 1 5/8" doors 2 1/4 " for stiles and rails...there are no "rules" this is what the manufactures have made almost standard..panels can be anything that you like.

1. 
   Doc | Dec 11, 2003 06:03pm | #2

   Thanks for the info.  I like some of the cabinets I've seen that have narrow stiles, but wider rails.  I'm also a big fan of the flat panel, or shaker/mission style doors.  It seems more economical to use sheet goods for the panels.  Any advice on what type to use?  Is plywood okay, or should I use MDF veneered or some other type of core?

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   jackplane | Dec 11, 2003 07:31pm | #3

   Except for the fact that MDF weighs a little more,it doesn't matter whether you use ply or MDF core.For stain-grade work,just pick a good face for the front.

2. 
   BG | Dec 11, 2003 07:49pm | #4

   Doc,

   I've used 1/4" ply before and it can be a bit flimsy...and the 1/4 ply itself is often warped.  I just (yesterday) put in 3/8" ply and routed the edge to be 1/4" for my dado in the rails and styles.  It feels very solid without being too heavy.  My doors were 37"x13" so I was concerned about the weight issue.

3. 
   Sphere | Dec 13, 2003 02:36am | #11

   I would not be inclined to veneering MDF..too heavy and you have to do both sides..solidwood raised panels (reversed if you like flat) or ply.  Keep it simple is best..for removing the FF if you chose to..a Feinn multimaster is the ticket..or re-veneer and finish..have fun.

2. 
   DonBush | Dec 11, 2003 09:02pm | #5

   Doc,

   Maybe this is a stupid question, but how are you going to remove the existing faceframes?

   DanMacD

1. 
   Doc | Dec 12, 2003 03:24am | #6

   DanMacD - That is not a stupid question at all.  I'll be honest with you.  I have no idea.  Actually, the face frames were nailed on from the front, and I think with a bit of gentle persuasion I can remove them without too much damage to the carcasses.  This is our first house, and this is a project that is a couple months down the road.  First priority is to get the garage insulated and heated, then unwrap my new Jet cabinet saw that is still on a pallet.  Then I'm putting down slate in the kitchen, THEN I'll start fabricating parts for the cabinets.  I can't actually promise you that it will work.  My other thoughts were to leave the existing face frames, and put the new ones right over the top.  It would look a little strange when you opened the doors, but not noticable when the doors are closed.  I would just make the new counter top an inch deeper.  Then again, I might just be biting off more than I can chew.  It's just that the house is plaster, not sheetrock, so I'd rather keep the full blown demolition to a minimum.  The upper cabinets attach to a soffit above.  Again, any thoughts on all of this would be great.  I'm probably overlooking the obvious.  Thanks again.

1. 
   DonBush | Dec 12, 2003 06:25pm | #7

   The reason I asked (about how you plan to remove the old faceframes) is I am planning the same project.  Assuming the faceframes are glued to the carcasses (as well as nailed), I can't imagine "pursuading" them off.  I have been planning to disassemble the cabinets, and then use an edge guided circular saw to remove the faceframes (after removing any fasteners). 

1. 
   Doc | Dec 12, 2003 07:28pm | #8

   I'm not sure how creative I'll have to get.  Because everything is plaster, I don't really want to start ripping cabinets off of the walls because of the way the soffit is installed above the cabinets.  I can't say it will work, but I've had good success before using a sawzall with a thin blade, or a jigsaw with a long blade.  If I pull the nails out through the front, then I'm only cutting glue where the two surfaces mate.  Not to say that I won't do a little bit of damage, but I don't think it will be anything too drastic.  Then I can use a pocket hole jig on the carcasses to create pocket holes facing the front and secure the new face frame with pocket screws.  I'm sure it will be tedious, but I don't think it's impossible.  I think a little patience and creativity will get me through it.  I worked for a cabinet shop for awhile.  We made only cabinets with no face frames, mostly commercial style cabinets for clinics and office buildings.  It was all particle board, melamine, and laminate.  I also know from experience how tedious it can be installing cabinets in an old house (like mine) where everything is far from plumb or level.  That's another reason I'd rather leave the cabinets in place, and use that time saved and apply it towards patiently removing the face frames.  I also don't mind the layout or set up of any of the cabinets in our kitchen, I would just like to dress them up a bit.  Go ahead and let me know what you think.  I'm enjoying bouncing ideas off of each other.  Sounds like we're tackling similar projects.

1. 
   MikeRooney | Dec 12, 2003 08:54pm | #9

   I'm looking to do something similar also.  Why not refinish the old frames or resurface them? You can  get veneer w/ pressure sensitive adhesive specifically for this purpose.

2. 
   YesMaam27577 | Dec 12, 2003 09:02pm | #10

   In general, a combination of moisture and heat will soften most glues that might have been used on your cabinets.

   But of course, the only way that you'll know if that worked or not, is if you don't break something when tapping the faceframe. (And if you do, then you won't be happy.)

   With that in mind, I'd probably use a combination of tools. An edge guided saw, as mentioned, is a great start. It would also be a big help in finding any fasteners. And once the fasteners are pulled, you could use a handplane or power planer to finish the job.

   Vast projects should not be founded on half vast ideas.

3. 
   triplenet | Dec 13, 2003 03:01am | #12

   Doc,

   Buy a small sledge hammer and either cut off the handle or replace the handle to about the same length as a heavy framing hammer (I think it is about 16").  Tap  a scrap block against the face frame and you'll be amazed at what you can do with minimal damage.  I learned this from many demos and from owing MG's. The MG gurus say it is something about high mass and low violence. Also known as persuading!  Try it, it works!

   1/4" plywood panels feel real cheap when you open a door.  High end  "Shaker" panels are reversed raised panels for the tactile appeal.