Greetings, I am embarking on a project to add additional cabinets to our kitchen to match existing. The existing are simple maple rail and stile doors with a panel (see pictures). I don’t like how the joints show, particularly on the lower doors, where you look down and you see the stub tenon. I realize I can build the new doors in mortise and tenon style to show just one line, but I thought to go one better and not show a joint at all by making the rails extend all the way from one end to the other. This way, you can see the joint from the side, but maybe not as obvious. Any other solutions? I don’t want to deviate too much from the existing style by using rabbeted door or full overlay. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Replies
Miters.
Yeah, I reckon a miter joint with a spline, or a hidden biscuit. But isn't this a bit more tough to build? I am a beginner. Thanks for your input
I would go with a stopped mortice and tenon as opposed to making the rail go from one side to the other. Structually it would be ok but I think the looks would offset any advantage you woulod get by not seeing the joint line.
Atoma,
I'm personally OK with the stub tenon or haunch showing. I think the issue with the door you showed in the picture is the large color variation in the maple used to make the door. The rail is considerably lighter than the stile, so that stub/haunch is really noticeable. This can be overcome when you make your own doors by selecting your material carefully and by trying to get the stiles and rails from the same board where possible.
I would not recommend running the rails end to end. I think the geometry would really contrast poorly with what you already have and, besides, it's non-traditional (ie: it's not done.)
If you really don't want to see those stub/haunch tenons, go with a traditional M&T joint with a stopped groove.
If you want the new stuff to 'match' the existing cabinets, I'd advise against miters. The eye will pick it up and that contrast will be very apparent. I think you have to go with a stile and rail door if you want it all to blend in.
Good luck with the project
Frank
As a woodworker, planning out the construction of the new doors, you are naturally conscious of the joinery of the door. But the typical person first forms his impressions of the doors when he enters the room and sees them from some distance. The vertical stiles running all the way from top to bottom, with horizonal rails in between are very much the image that would be seen, and is quite standard and unremarkable. Any deviation from that basic pattern will be instantly noticed, I would think. Few but yourself notice the joinery from the top of the doors, and as was mentioned, careful selections of the wood would reduce that effect. So if you are trying to make them fit in and match the existing I'd not worry about the visibility of that joint.
Now, I do strongly urge that before you start making these doors, you work out your finishing schedule, making sure to simulate the differences between end grain (at the top of the stiles) and the face grain. Exactly matching an existing finish is very difficult--and will likely involve more than just applying a film finish to the new wood, because the existing wood has darkened somewhat over time, you can be sure. I would strongly consider making new cabinets whose finish is planned to distinctly NOT match the existing ones. Then everyone will be sure it was a design choice, and not a finishing error.
Your existing doors were made with a shaper setup that is quite standard in commercial operations. As you stated, there's no reason to try to reproduce the way it was made. However, I wouldn't change the "look" of the face of the doors by switching to miters or by running the rails all the way to the ends and stopping the stiles. Stiles are almost universally done full length, while the rails stop short, and there are several advantages to this. The first is that it assures you are always attaching hinges (whether Euro or butt) into the desirable direction of grain. If you run the rails to the edge you may find yourself with weak hinge points. There are other considerations as well, but just the premise of adding to existing cabinets should dictate that you stay with the convention.
The major discrepancy in color between rails and stiles is caused by the diffraction of light at different angles. Maple is notorious for this and you cannot avoid it. If you want to verify this, take 2 pieces from the same finished maple board and rotate one of them 90°. They will suddenly look completely different from each other, at least from certain angles.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1
Thank you all for your valuable input. I now see that miters are not the way to go because this would change the square look of the R&S. Also, the idea of running the rails all the way across was not a good one, and I see that now. To this end, I think I'll try stopped grovve with M&T to reduce the joint to a line. Thanks again to all for your valuable input.ATOMA
I think the biggest reason to avoid the miter is stability. Long term, a miter is more prone to open up if your finish fails, or you have large humidity changes. Wood expands/contracts about its width and thickness, but not about its length. The traditional cope/stick method takes advantage of this fact to yield a more stable door panel.
If you are making any quantity of doors you will probably want to prep all the rails/stiles at once. A stopped groove makes mass production more difficult.
Good luck with the project.
Over the years I have modified and done many partial kitchens to match the existing cabinets and if you start out with different looking doors they will always look different .
You said you are adding to the existing cabinets , your best bet for a good match is to make the doors exactly the same as the existing . Otherwise you will have two different mis matched door styles .
The look is completely normal and not wrong , as far as the contrast , hey it's real wood and sort of shows off the joints .
regards dusty
Thanks for your comments, Dusty.Yeah, I know it looks normal, but I think it will look less obvious if the joint was a line with, say, a M&T joint with a stop groove for the panel. Maybe a bit of wood matching would help :-)Best regards, ATOMA
You are welcome , but really the face of the doors is what you see like 95%
I would want them to all look the same , one way or the other if I wanted the new to blend in better with the old .
Most of mine look like yours , according to the FWW test results the stub tenon joint was the weakest of all , oh my , in fact at a mere about 200 lbs per joint the average cabinet door sounds strong enough for normal use to me .
regards dusty
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