Replies

1. 
   jackiechan | May 31, 2003 06:29am | #1

   Pat,

   I use small metal glazing points, along with a thin layer of glazing compound for both the points and the glass to be set in.  Once its dry, I'll dress it up with some handmade molding, which is pinned through the wood into the windows wood frame (not into glass).  This makes it very easy to replace the glass if it is ever damaged.

   Let me know if you have any additional questions.

   Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

1. 
   patrickk | Jun 02, 2003 12:28am | #15

   Dan, thanks for the idea, do you use a small quarter round on the inside. Some of the ideas that have been posted use just silicone but when you open the door I don't think it would look finished. I,m trying to take my woodworking to the next level and this sounds like the best and cleanest to me. Thanks for your reply.

1. 
   jackiechan | Jun 02, 2003 03:53am | #21

   Pat,

   I've used quarter round molding, but tend to fabricate something a little more angular.  I'm partial to a simple chamfer, set at varying degrees.  I like to route one or more sharp V grooves into the face of the chamfer.  The different facets of this of molding offer more surfaces for the light to refract off of.  This enhances and amplifies the frames appearance, giving it greater depth without overpowering the design.  It is the total sum of all of a piece's subtleties, combined with the type of wood, its grain, color, texture, and finish that can provide the ultimate synergistic visual balance.

   Please feel free to send along any additional questions that you may have!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.

2. 
   Jamie_Buxton | May 31, 2003 09:19pm | #2

   I think that replaceable glass is one of those things left over from the 18th century.  Think about it -- how often have you seen cabinet glass broken?   Except for breaking it with your pin nailer while you're building it, broken glass happens very rarely.   My approach is to regard the glass as the panel in the door.  Install it at the stage in door construction when you'd install a wood panel.   This allows you to do nice strong joinery at the corners of the door.  It also avoids ugly stuff on the back of the door;  the back of the door is just as clean as the front.

   And if you're saying "Oh, but the glass _might_ get broken sometime" there is a fix.   Remove the broken glass and use a rabbet bit in your router to re-cut the back of the door frame.   At that point you have exactly the same door frame you're getting now: the glass panel slips in, and you nail in little strips of wood to hold it in place.  That is, for the rare case when you need to replace the glass, you have the door design that you now use.  For the other 99% of the cases, you get the benefits of the better method.

1. 
   forestgirl | May 31, 2003 11:47pm | #6

   If you're building something for yourself (a woodworker) that method would be fine.  However, I would never build something for someone else and make the glass anything less than easily replaceable.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Jun 01, 2003 06:23am | #8

   Jamie, it always seems that anything that goes out of my shop has a lifetime warrantee attached anyhow!

                   (The other) Jamie

2. 
   patrickk | Jun 02, 2003 12:11am | #13

   Jamie, that is a great idea- I was wondering how you do the finishing, tape it off? Also all of my raised panel bits the groove for the panel would be to wide for glass, how do you keep the glass from rattling. Thanks for the idea.

1. 
   Jamie_Buxton | Jun 02, 2003 02:56am | #19

   Pat --

      I generally use a wipe-on finish like the Maloof recipe that is sometimes called "witches brew" on these boards, or Bartley's wipe-on varnish.   Both of these can be wiped on a door with glass already installed, and then wiped off the glass.  If you miss a spot while wiping it off the glass and it cures in place, you can easily clean it off the glass with a single-edged razor blade.  The blade won't skratch the glass.

     "Double-strength" glass is 1/8" thick.  I cut a groove like that with either a slotting bit on a router, or a standard carbide blade on the table saw.   For the joint at the corner, I like floating tenons.  Sometimes I make conventional ones, using a plunge router to make the mortises, or sometimes I use biscuits.   Biscuits allow the frame to assemble more easily if the joint is mitered.

            Jamie

3. 
   ron61 | May 31, 2003 09:26pm | #3

   Clear silicone caulking

4. 
   makita | May 31, 2003 09:38pm | #4

   pat,

       At the glass shop, where I work, we glaze hundreds of  doors a year for custom cabinet makers. We have used many methods to secure the glass including stops, plastic push in bead, points, glazing compound, and double sided tape. The best system we have come up with,however, is to cut the glass to a very close tolerance to the rabbet, and bead it in with clear silicone. I know this sounds hokey, but we run a fine bead[less than 1/8''] and ,when it dries, it all but disappears and gives a very clean look. this method is very popular with makers and their customers and works well on doors with routed rabbets with radiused corners. this adheres very well to any barrier finish but I would steer clear of using it on an oil finish. hope this helps.

        Chris
5. 
   ChasStanford | May 31, 2003 09:40pm | #5

   Glazing putty and points.

6. 
   charlesm | May 31, 2003 11:48pm | #7

   Pat,

   Freud makes router bit sets that produce the stile and rail for glass doors as well as grain matched bead to hold in the glass. The stile bit makes the profile for the front of the door and the bead at the same time. The bead is then ripped off with a 1/8" kerf blade on the table saw. Cope the rails, assemble the doors, lay in the glass, miter cut the beads to length and attach with brads. The finished doors look the same from the front and the back and the beads are removeable if needed. See info here:

   http://www.freudtools.com/woodworkers/rep/router_bits/Router_Bits/Cabinet_Door/html/Cabinet_Door_2.html

   Charles M

   Freud, Inc.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/1/2003 2:49:01 PM ET by CHARLES_MC

7. 
   pauld | Jun 01, 2003 08:38am | #9

   Pat,

   I've attached (I hope) a photo that shows how I do it.

   I start by routing a rabbet 3/8" wide and 1/4" deep for the glass to sit in. The glass is usually 1/8" thick, so I make a wood frame to hold the glass in place that's 3/8" wide and 1/8" thick - the length of each piece is cut to fit the glass opening exactly. This is relatively quick and easy to do at the band saw.

   next, I mill a half-lap joint at the intersections of each piece of this mini-frame, do a dry fit, and glue it up using small spring clamps.

   Round off the corners to fit the routed rabbet at the disc sander. I mount the glass retainer by drilling a shallow (1/16" deep) counterbore in which brass finish washers and screws are inserted.

   If you have any questions, please let me know.

   Paul

1. 
   pauld | Jun 01, 2003 08:48am | #10

   Let's try the attachment again!

   
1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 01, 2003 06:27pm | #11

   There's that beautiful clock again!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

1. 
   pauld | Jun 02, 2003 02:39am | #18

   FG,

   Thanks for the compliment! I was apprehensive about posting a photo of one of my projects on a website of this caliber, and must admit I was a little disappointed at the lack of feedback - being my own worst critic, it's easy to believe a lack of response equates with disapproval.

   Paul

1. 
   forestgirl | Jun 02, 2003 07:41pm | #24

   Paul, I am duly chastised (and I mean that sincerely).  I peeked at the clock late one night, and didn't take the time to post.  I really, realllllly, like it.  Henceforth, I will express myself when someone takes the time to post in the gallery and the item catches my eye. 

   PS:  I recently had to rout a rabbet around the inside of a case (forgot to do it before I glued it up, doh!).  The rabbet was 1/4" x 1/4", and I was able to square it (in Alder) by using a utility knife to "slide" along the bottom surface and slice underneath the round, then scored the top lines and used a chisel.  Probably wouldn't work with a harder wood like oak though.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl   ;-)

   Edited 6/2/2003 12:46:00 PM ET by forestgirl

2. 
   patrickk | Jun 02, 2003 12:21am | #14

   Paul, wow what a nice job on the clock, your idea is great for special projects but would you do this if you had 3 kitchen cabinets to build. Also Paul sincee you built a clock I have a clock question for you. I'm building a grandmothers clock for my uncle who got it in kit form 20 yrs ago for Christmas. The case work is all done put there is no instructions on how to mount the movements or how the moon dial works. If you have any ideas or where I could get  them I would greatly appreciate it. Some day I hope to do the quality of work as you do.

1. 
   pauld | Jun 02, 2003 02:27am | #16

   "would you do this if you had 3 kitchen cabinets to build. "

   Pat,

   I appreciate your kind comments. The answer to your question would depend on whether I was building the cabinets for myself (or a family member or friend), or a paying customer? If for a customer, I'd want to make sure I was compensated for my time; if for myself, a family member, or friend, I'd do it without question. Doesn't take much more time to make several sets than it does to do only one - once you've decided to go that route. The things that take the longest are scraping and sanding the parts flat and smooth, and waiting for the glue to dry.

   BTW, I'd scale-up the size of the pieces to match the scale of the door, and/or use several more of the brass finish washers and screws to hold them in place.

   Couldn't advise you on clock mechanisms, as mine was an extremely simple battery-operated unit.

   Good luck,Paul

   Edited 6/1/2003 7:29:24 PM ET by Paul D

8. 
   lostarrow | Jun 01, 2003 10:39pm | #12

   pat,

    As forestgirl stated " there's that beautiful clock again".  But, (my opinion only), it loses something when the door is open. That certainly is an innovating way to fasten the glass in place. However,if I were to go to the expense of using finial clock case hinges on a project, I would spend a few more minutes and square the corners of those gains on the back of the door. To my eye, those rounded corners are a detraction. Round or square, I guess one is as good as the other to hold he glass in place.

   Be not afraid of going slowly.  Be afraid only of standing still.   chinese proverb
1. 
   pauld | Jun 02, 2003 02:35am | #17

   Lostarrow,

   I appreciate your feedback. Figured that leaving the corners of the rabbets rounded on the inside of a door that would be opened twice a year was a compromise I could live with. I'd probably square-up the corners on a door that would be opened frequently - like a glass-fronted kitchen cabinet door; I'm not fond of the "gee, look, this joint was machined with a router" look, either.

   Paul

9. 
   Glendo | Jun 02, 2003 03:16am | #20

   Hi Pat,

   I usually use 1/4 by 1/4 wood strips held in place by 5/8" by 23g. pins from a pin nailer. The pins hold well and are practically invisible. The strips are also easy to pry out if a pane needs to be replaced. I've done hundreds of windows this way.It's fast and I've never broken glass.

   Glendo.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 6/1/2003 8:25:10 PM ET by Glendo

1. 
   DougF | Jun 02, 2003 05:15pm | #22

   Woodworhers Supply has two styles of retaining clips for glass inserts for cabinet doors, each style facilitating removal/replacement.  

   Doug

10. 
    Jamie_Buxton | Jun 02, 2003 06:04pm | #23

    If you're nervous about hammering nails near glass, and find tiny screws difficult, another solution is escutcheon pins, with a an escutcheon pin driver.   Escutcheon pins are tiny nails, often made of brass.  You install them by drilling a pilot hole slightly smaller than the nail, and pushing the pin home with the driver.   The driver has a tube the pin fits inside of, and a shaft that slides in the tube to drive the pin home.  The driver costs $10 or so, and a lifetime supply of pins is $10.  Many woodworking catalogs have them.  You get to install the pins with a slow controlled push instead of flailing around with a hammer or (even more scary) a nailgun.

1. 
   patrickk | Jun 03, 2003 10:36pm | #25

   Thanks Jamie thats a good idea.