Replies

1. 
   Clay | Sep 18, 2004 03:52am | #1

   I wouldn't quit my day job if I were you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Make your kitchen though and then come back here and tell us all how easy it was.

2. 
   notDusty | Sep 18, 2004 04:13am | #2

                   Hi Jellyrug ,

           Is the $100.000 just for the cabinets ? or does that include the complete remodel ? You may have a huge kitchen or are wanting Rosewood or some other exotic perhaps . I have done many a kitchen that the Granite counter tops cost as much or more than the cabinets . Appliances can add up real quick , for instance a job I did several years ago the 48" wide Commercial style range cost about $16, 000 alone . The granite farm front type sink was  also spendy . A nice wine cooler several of those new whisper quiet dishwashers and a few other appliances can add up real quick . How much do you make at your job including benefits and retirement and holidays  , vacations health insurance ? In a  one man cabinet shop you will reach the point of maximum output and that will be the ceiling of volume you are capable of producing in a months time span . Usually the more expensive the job the more detail there is and the more time it takes . The guys that knock out dinger type jobs and buy their doors out can produce a lot of boxes in a month . There is merit in the prestige of doing the high end jobs but you may find the money much faster doing the quick and straight forward jobs.

                  Good luck             dusty

1. 
   Jellyrug | Sep 18, 2004 04:46am | #3

   Dusty,

   The kitchen is for everything, including appliances, tops lighting etc. My friend (Dentist) just did something similar and it was around $100k

   Not planning my own business now, but sometimes it's tempting. Looks as if the margin here is high though, if you buy ready made doors, they are around five times the lumber price.

   I have done a kitchen before, with my father, but this was a long time ago. We used a combination of Imbuia and Guatambu, everything was solid wood, except for the backs and shelves and tops. Used frames, for the box construction. The whole thing went real quick.

   How many kitchens do you do in a year and how long does the average one take you?

   Thanks for the reply.

   Willie

1. 
   notDusty | Sep 18, 2004 06:39am | #4

                  Jellyrug ,

         The jobs have become much larger than when I started out 25 years ago. But as far as a local average goes , a one person shop in my experience may be able to produce somewhere between about $5,000 - $10,000 worth of custom cabinets a month . Some of the nicer homes may have 25 - 40 thousand dollars worth of cabinets in them . So it is hard to say how many kitchens and how long they take . Much depends on the market you are in . Some areas command high prices, while others may be less . Find out what the per foot price goes for in your area. How many feet of cabinets can you build in a month ? In most cases a job costs me about 35% of the sale price , in general . Some furniture has a lower cost ratio , so anymore I try and stick to furniture or what I call furniture grade cabinets.One shop I know buys his doors and marks them up 25% . Building your own doors is questionable compared to building boxes. I have 5 shapers set up so running the door parts requires no set up or changes . Running a set of 50 - 75 doors can take a week or so to complete by yourself.

                                                   dusty

                          

3. 
   JohnWW | Sep 18, 2004 06:11pm | #5

   Making furniture is a lot easier than making money at making furniture.

   The $100,000 is the total cost of the kitchen remodel, what puts food on the table is the little bit of that 100K that's left after everyone and everything gets paid for, confusing the two is what gets a lot of small businesses in trouble. 

   Can you make a decent living as a cabinetmaker?  The answer is a qualified yes, but the business end of the work isn't easy and most owners of small shops are only making a middle class income after expenses and it probably took them several lean years to get to that point.

   I don't want to discourage you from starting what could be a very fulfilling business, but if you go in with way too rosy expectations you won't be prepared to deal with the problems that are likely to occur.  There are books on starting and running a cabinet shop and small businesses, they would be a good first investment.

   Good luck, John W.

1. 
   Jellyrug | Sep 18, 2004 08:16pm | #6

   John,

   Yep, sounds if I have to stay put. I have good long career behind me, and report directly to the CEO. The money is good, the responsibility too much and with all the organizational rules, sometimes, it's like being in prison. I guess it's a frame of mind, which one has to work on.

   If we think outside of the box here:

   What about buying a small cabinet business, say around $2 million, start manufacturing stock components, to satisfy the current market this business has and then change the approach completely. Buy good rough sawn lumber here, ship it to far East and get a manufacturer there, to ship back the components, manufactured to own specifications. Do assembly here and start supplying own needs, as well as the cabinet industry.

   I have done some research and although a lot of furniture here is now made far East, most cabinet work is still local.

   Willie

1. 
   mudman | Sep 18, 2004 09:25pm | #7

   With your experience in business I am sure you are aware of this saying. It is my mantra. THERE IS NO EASY MONEY. I am a remodeler and build specialty cabinerty. My company concentrates on the 5 to 15k market. I also invest in realestate. Rehabing houses, Charleton Sheets......bla bla. Every one thinks it is easy money because of the numbers involved. It is not. It is rewarding and gratifying for me. And the money is good. Mainly I like taking vacations whenever I want!! Remodeling is the hardest segment of the building trades. I think that any homebuilder would agree on that one. You always work for the owners (new construction often has no owners yet) and they are understandably warry and picky. There are constant suprises. Last year we gutted and re finished a 700 sqft living area, adding new windows stepped ceilings, stain grade trim .... the works. After the Demo we realized that the "living room" we were in was actually the back porch that the previous owners had remodeled into a living area/ den. That completely changed the whole job. None of the framing was as we thought it would be, the origional porch posts were still supporting the rim joist! The apparenly continous joist structure wasn't continous. Remodeling requires continous on the spot decesions and comunication with the owners. Lots of serious problem solving.

   Mikeplease excuse my spelling.

1. 
   Jellyrug | Sep 18, 2004 09:48pm | #8

   Mike,

   Good post as always.

   My wife is a realtor and she has a client who buys the house with long grass in the yard, beer cans lying all over the place, a motor car engine in the front yard, paint coming off the trim, etc. He then dumps around $60k into it and sells it at a profit. I have been watching curiously and believe the booming market is on his side. When things turn, he may be in trouble.

   Sadly, in 2004 and the future, the big money is not in selling your own labor, no matter how skilled it is. First, everything gets mechanized and automated, then it's high volume, low margin and of late, using cheap labor offshore.

   Maybe one day, I can sit around a barbecue, with a few beers and a couple of guys and talk about having cabinet parts made offshore :-)

   Willie

1. 
   mudman | Sep 19, 2004 12:29am | #9

   Willie,

   One of the great things about realestate rehabing is that the market is always good. Right now in my area it is a buyers market. The 130 k to 170 k market is flooded with excellent homes. This means that we are buying distressed properties at great prices. Ive bought at 60 and sold at 130 only putting about 30k in. Sometimes this means that we can't sell the houses as fast as we like (again the market is flooded), but we can sell at below market value if we have to. When the market shifts and it is a sellers market we will still be doing good, especially if we held on to those "buyers market" houses. The only way you can screw it up is if you spend too much in the begining, or if you cant afford to wait a year to get the money back. Believe me though the 10 to 20 grand profit comes at the price of working 12 hour days for 6 weeks or more. It is tough. Lucrative? potientialy Easy? no.

   Mikeplease excuse my spelling.