Good Morning:
In the last year or so, I’ve almost completed the transition from sandpaper to hand-tool final preparation– and it’s been great, not only for the quality of the final surface but for better working conditions as well.
Hand planes are working well, as is my card scraper, but the latter is tiring on the thumbs.
I’d like to purchase a scraping plane or cabinet scraper, and I’d appreciate your thoughts as to which to buy.
p.s. enjoyed the article recently in FWW on this subject, but I’d like a few more opinions before making a purchase.
Replies
I own both and get better results with the hand scraper. The challenge with most cabinet scraper is they come with nice thick blades that cannot be bent in the middle, and therein lies my disappointment. What I don't have and ought to get is one of those holders that take a regular card scraper, grasp it and give it an adjustable middle bend.
The LV scraper plane is great on large surfaces. With its thin blade [get both blades], the blade can be bowed which addresses the issue mentioned already. The thick blade I suspect will be used more, though. At least on larger surfaces.
I owned the large LN scraper plane for a number of years. Top tool for scraping as long as one doesn't need to adress small areas. It has no facility to bow the blade like the LV does. However, used in conjunction with a hand scraper--and the LV scraper holder is great--one can manage large areas and localized areas.
Take care, Mike
Thanks, Mike. I'm really leaning toward the mid-size LN cabinetmaker's scraping plane, as I think the LV might be just a bit too large . Do you think that I'm sacrificing too much in giving up the option of bowing the blade?
If you don't mind, I'll comment on that.
To me, we are talking about two different tools (unless you make some alterations). The bowing scraper is great for finishing. The non-bowable (is that a word?) leaves lines/cuts at its edges. Now you could, if careful, machine an arc in that thick blade that would make it act more like a bowed scraper. Once you do that though, you bascially abandon the flat/square type jig you might use to burnish the blade. Not that you couldn't create a matching curved jig. (Me, I do all my scraper burnishing freehand, but the LN is thick and some really hard stuff so it'll take some honest pressure to establish the edge.
Thanks for both your replies, blewcrowe. What I'm really looking for this tool to do is help me prepare larger surfaces that balk at a smoothing plane for final finishing (or almost--maybe with the LN I'd still use a card scraper on those lines...).
I'm thinking the LN cabinetmaker's over the LV because the smaller size seems more maneuverable for mid-size projects (a small end table top, for example). Does this thinking seem correct?
I have the LN large scraping plane. It's good for tabletop and panel type work. Way too big for smaller pieces. But I know LN makes two smaller sizes. And yes, I think you are thinking correctly. Do what you can with the thick blade, then finish up with the bow blade.
I have a LN 85, a LV 112 and in terms of what is used more when I need a scraper, it is basically a card scraper. Next would be the 112 and finally the LN 85. I just finished two rather small end tables made out of curly cherry, and had to resort to the 112. It's size was not a hindrance.
As Mike mentioned previously, a scraper is used when you can't get the desired results from a smoother. As far as learning curve (in my opinion), the card scraper is the easiest and I felt the LV 112 was much easier to learn (note I did not state master!) than the LN 85.
For what its worth, though, I prefer a plane and I would suggest thoroughly learning your smoother and fettling to the extreme. I don't want to sound as if I'm endorsing the "flat sole society", but a major effect of fettling is learning how your plane works. Also, make sure you have a blade that is as sharp as can be.
T.Z.
I think my opinion will fly in the face of most, but I believe I would have a supporter in Tage Frid.
I like and use card scrapers quite a bit. They are great for getting into those nooks and crannies where smoothers cannot go. I also may use one to remove unexpected tracks, if this is present. Tracks sometimes do appear, even though I put a very fine camber on my smoothers. This camber is important when smoothing generally, but it can also be the case of "too much of a good thing ...(is not good for you)".
The camber that is created when pushing a card scraper will leave hollows in the surface. How deep a hollow and how acceptable this is to you is your choice .. I do push card scrapers as well, generally when I want a deeper shaving, such as when removing tearout. Otherwise I will always pull the scraper, since this minimises the camber - leaving just enough to avoid tracks. Let me emphasise that creating a big bend with the thumbs when pushing a card scraper will produce nice, large shavings, but this can be akin to a scrub plane, not a smoother.
I also have (but rarely use) a Stanley #112 with LN blade. Yes the blade is thick and it will not bend, but you must think of this scraper plane as a plane - a high angle smoother - not a jack-scrub. Hone the blade as you will a blade for a smoother but giving it a very fine camber. This will prevent any tracks. I bevel mine at 30 degrees (not the 45 degrees now recommended by LN, who actually originally started with 60 degrees). This leaves "sharper" edge. It last long enough for my needs. But, as I said earlier, I do not use it much - not because it does not work (it works very well), but because I prefer card scrapers. And, in any event, I have a fine arsenal of smoothers that will handle just about any difficult grain.
Regards from Perth
Derek
The LN #85 is a fine plane. For me it worked well in classes when doing smaller areas, such as drawers, rails/stiles, smaller panels.
The larger ones work great for, well, larger areas.
The ability to bow the thin blade is a very good thing--as long as the scale of work supports the size of the plane. That's something only you can really decide.
Regardless, the thicker blades can be set for final passes and used so as to not leave "plane tracks" simply by lightly relieving the corners and setting them for a light cut. This is no different than setting up a smoother for final surfaces. But there is practice involved.
My use of a scraper is a last resort sort of thing. I only use them if a smoother fails to obtain a final surface either because of the grain [tearout] and/or due the shear hardness of the timber.
But when needed, they work very well.
Take care, Mike
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