Replies

1. 
   mudman | Sep 22, 2006 05:46pm | #1

   I havent used the newest version but 4.0 is limited in its flexibility. These programs are not meant for furniture.

   Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   maderamax | Sep 22, 2006 08:21pm | #2

   Did you use CV 3.5 before 4.0?

   Just curious if there are any significant new features.

   Max

1. 
   mudman | Sep 24, 2006 12:23am | #5

   No, and my experience with any of them is limited to demos at WWing shows. I use Ecabs. It is also limited to cabinetry. There are people who use it for true furniture, but I think it is nuts. If by furniture you mean a desk cunstructed using cabinets, or book cases then these programs are great. But designing a chair with this stuff is unreasonable. You really need one of the many, many CAD programs out there. And that is tedius and difficult to learn. If all you need is a representation of the work to sell a job, then sketchup from google and other simular design programs work well. But relying on CAD to get all the joinery details, angles and design requires a serious CAD program and a lot of experience using it.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   killenwood | Sep 24, 2006 07:46am | #6

   Mudman, you mention that SketchUp may be OK for overall representation, but not for detail design. I have been using this program for about 2 years and do all furniture in detail with SketchUp. I will not go to the shop without all joint details in the model. I admit that there was a learning curve, but find many benefits in the design and construction stages with SketchUp. All joint details, including dovetails, are in my models. I produce full-size prints of these joint details, and use them to mark up the lumber. This saves time and reduces the mistakes in the shop.

   I've attached one example of a garden bench I am building now. This is only one view, the Exploded View. I make about 20-30 views for each piece of furniture, showing in detail each component and joint.

   I do cupboards, chairs, desks, tables, chests, etc using SketchUp. All panelled doors and drawers are also detailed with dovetails and mortise and tenons.

   Tim

   
1. 
   maderamax | Sep 25, 2006 02:11am | #7

   Thanks everyone for your advice. I think for now I'll have to stick with Cab Vision for our big cabinet jobs since I've already invested several months learning the program (which is quite extensive).
   That sketchup program looks like it could be helpful for furniture plans, though...is it also a free download? I have done some basic 2D drawings in Auto CAD, but Im not yet sure if I'm ready to really jump into that program....I started skimming through the training program and it made my head hurt!Thanks again,
   Max

2. 
   mudman | Sep 25, 2006 06:28am | #8

   I have only used the free version, So if you are using the pay version my comments dont apply. If you are using the free version then my hat is off to you. I have seen people post dovetailed boxes with all kinds of joinery as well. I am pretty good with computers and very good at learning new things, and I cant imagine how hard it would be to make that stuff in Sketch up. I am pretty sure I could do it, but there is software out there that will do it a lot easier. The reality is that sketch up was not designed to make things the way Auto Cad is, it is to show what the things you make look like. I have also seen people use cabinetry software to make chairs and tables as well. But at that point all you are really doing is using the editors built into the program to create the desired shapes, you aren't using the features of the software that justify the 5 or 6 digit pricetag.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

3. 
   killenwood | Sep 25, 2006 06:41am | #9

   Mike, I am not using the free version. However, I don't think there is anything I use in the software that is not available in the free version.

   I have used other CAD programs, including Microstation, AutoSketch, AutoCAD, and Intergraph SmartSketch. For whatever reason, I was unable to get to the 3D stage in any of these programs. I would be interested in what software you believe would be easier to achieve full 3D furniture design.

   Tim

4. 
   mudman | Sep 26, 2006 05:41am | #10

   I dont use any software for furniture design. I generally base my deminsions on a real piece or a plan and then modify from there using scale drawings. In my opinion most the commonly hand made furniture is a lot easier than cabinets and once I know how it needs to look I can figure the math for the joinery as I go. A lot of the "furniture" I make is really just fancy modified cabinets, like book cases and entertainment centers. Cabinetry design software can do this nicely.

   My experience with "real" Cad software is limited. I only use it to make parts that I cant reasonably make in Ecabinets. Like I said cabinetry design software is not well suited for designing odd parts. I cant speak with any real authority on what is "best" for furniture. I know from talking with other pros that Auto CAD is the most popular, but those who use Auto Cad seem to use it because it is there. The few advanced users I know seem to use different programs for different aplications. What I hear over and over is that any CAD program is hard to become proficient at, so users tend to stick to the system they know. I find that Sketch Up is very easy to understand and use but there are no advanced features that allow one to speed up the engineering (joinery in our case). But the flip side seems to be that only proficient users know how to use those advanced features.

   To elaborate on the posters question compairing Cabinet Vision and Ecabinets. I would say that CV can do more, particulary with its editor and mouldings. But the actual cabinets are a lot harder to change. With out going into detail, making simple construction changes requires going through a long wizard to change preferences that all must be returned back to its previous settings afterward. I believe that they are trying to fix that in this new version. Basicly they are trying to be more like Ecab.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

2. 
   forestgirl | Sep 23, 2006 06:51pm | #3

   Don't know what kinda time you have for a learning curve, but you might consider eCabinet Software, which is free, but not chintzy -- offered to professionals only.  They have upgraded their tutorials.  Notify you promptly when upgrades come out.

   http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/

   Especially since you're phasing out cabinetry, might be a good way to go!

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-) 
   

3. 
   glennwarner | Sep 23, 2006 09:32pm | #4

   I second the ecabinet systems option. There is a learning curve but there is a user forum which most helpful. It has improved continuously over the last couple of years, and there are many future improvements planned. There are added benefits of co-op purchasing and the ability to have your designs machined on a Thermwood CNC. Link - http://www.ecabinetsystems.com

   Regards,

   Glenn