Hello All;
Got rid of my cab saw. Was about to replace with a Saw Stop. But before I do that, I want to make this my last saw so to speak. Has any one switched over from a cab saw to a small slider, <ie Laguna tss of hammer , maybe a rojek> and if so comments from things you miss or things you regret or really like about the switch.
Do you find the mitre guage easy to adjust?
Thanks very much for any responce?
joe p
Replies
As far as I'm concerened a cabinet saw is only half a saw. A four foot slider with the the outrigger support is the best you can get. I have no use for a cms or a radial arm saw and the accuracy is right on the money. The scmi slider I had didn't take up a lot of room compared to an 8' or 10' slider as far as reaching over the table. Some folks complain they are awkward for doing hardwoods but I didn't find this to be a problem. Plus it took a dado and cost me only $1750 and I was the second owner. I have no plans to ever own a Saw Stop after how the inventor tried to force the industry to use his patent. I think you need to find a shop and see if you can try it or at least watch it in action. The add on sliders are really a lame idea and too fussy and not nearly as tough. Being able to crosscut a full sized table top on the saw as the next step after ripping is truly a major time saver.
Joe, I feel a sliding table saw is far superior to an "ordinary" cabinet saw in every way. Not only does a slider handle sheet goods much more easily and much more accurately, but all manner of cuts, including ripping and cross cutting of solid stock are handled much more precisely and safely. With the work locked to the sliding table, your hands are no where near the blade as the table firmly carries the work past the teeth. But there are sliding table saws and there are sliding table saws. Felder/Hammer and MiniMax have excellent saws at a wide range of prices. There are other makes at about the same price and quite a bit lower in price, but they don't really measure up for a number of reasons. Right now, Grizzly, Rojek and Robland IMO are in that category. Rich
Rich,
Thanks for the reply. I got up close to the Laguna tss the other day at a show. One of my concerns with a slider is giving up the strenths of a cab saw. <ie left tilt for beveling narrow stock> . I would love to toss out my sled. I would not be able to fit an outrigger support in my shop, so the best i can seem to get can do a 6 ft rip<slider stroke, laguna TSS> with an 18" support left of the slider.
No matter which way I slice it, its about $5000.00 est for the Laguna, Hammer and a bit more for the felder.
Any other thoughts?
with a Felder or Minimax combo or slider, how would you describe the difference in cutting hardwoods as compared to a cabinet saw? I think of the Euro / slider saws as doing well with sheet good, but I am not familiar with how the sliders help with keeping hands away from the blade for rip cuts in hardwood.
Hotwheels, there are 2 ways to rip on the slider:1. With the fence to the right of the blade you rip as you would on a regular TS, not using the slide table at all.2. Using a hold-down clamp at the front of the carriage, and your hand or another hold-down at the rear of the board, you use the carriage movement to slice a perfectly straight cut off the right side of the board.In any given instance you get to choose which way is easier/safer to use.
David Ring
http://www.touchwood.co.il/?id=1&lang=e
hotwheels, In addition to David's response, within the limitations of the travel of the sliding table, ripping is a safe, controlled operation. The far end of the piece is jammed against a "shoe" which is locked to the slider and the near end is clamped with the large, lever operated hold-down. On my 78" slider I can rip that long a board, 99%+ of my ripping needs. I could have ordered a longer slider, but I don't need it, others do. The "rip fence" on such a saw is adjustable and slides to and from the operator's position and is used mostly as just a "material stop" (a stop block) against which the right side of the ripped piece is brought to establish the width of the rip, either for one cut or repetitive parallel rips. Obviously if I have the need to rip a 13' board (not likely, I cut my stock to rough length first and a board more than 6' is as long as I ever need for furniture work) I would use the rip fence and cut on the right side of the blade as is done on a typical cabinet saw. Request a demo DVD from Hammer. It's an eye-opener. Rich
Thanks to all for the great info and responces. I will do a little more homework on the mentioned machines and hopefully make a decision.
Thanks Joe P
A local woodworker has a felder and a minimax and he invited me to come by and take a look. Think I will do that and it should answer my questions. Thanks!
Rick
I know I've asked a few of these questions before, but I'm reconsidering taking the plunge and upgrading to a slider. When you say "4 foot slider", do you mean that it has the ability to crosscut a 4'x8' sheet of plywood by laying it down in front of the blade, and using the sliding fence/carriage (whatever you call it) to push the piece through the blade. And, (bad grammar) does this mean that a 10' slider has the same crosscut/rip-slide capacity? I'd appreciate a bit of your expertise on this matter. I'm looking at an SCMI slider, but just getting started, and don't know all the terms yet.
Thanks in advance,
Jeff
When I say 4' slider I mean it will crosscut 48" with typical 50" rip capacity. Sliders are also available with 5', 8', and 10' slider travel so you can actually put a perfect reference edge on it as opposed to using the factory edge of the material. Again the typical rip capacity is 50".
Don't a lot of the slider manufacturers also make the option of a scoring cutter a lot easier?
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
As far as I know, all the sliders have a scoring blade option. As in all designs, some are (a lot) better than others.Rich
I did, no desire to go back.
Bio,
Do you have any creep of your stock? Do you find the saw weaker than a cab saw when working with small solid stock?
I am looking closely at the Laguna TSS, Felder, and Hammer. Cant fit outrigger support though. Any thoughts? What saw do you run?
Thanks for the reply.
Joe P
I bought a new saw about a year ago, and I was looking at the TSS, and then I used one--POS! Not to mention the lame excuse for customer service I have received with my Laguna bandsaw. I really wanted to go with a Felder, but I was just not ready to part with that much cash. About $10K after equiping one to my specs...
In the end, I got a great deal on a PM66 w/ 5HP and the Excalibur slider(under $3k new). I am quite satisfied with the way that it cuts, and although the Excalibur is not as top end as the sliders on the Felders and other Euro machines, it crosscuts full sheets of ply dead on.
Peter
www.jpswoodworking.com
When you say pos, do you mean the fit and finish? I also have a 16" laguna bs, and the machine is great for its intended purpose, but I definetly think the fit and finish is to be desired? Please expand on POS.
thanks Joe P
Edited 1/15/2007 7:38 pm ET by joepez
Delta just issued a Spring 2007 flyer in Canada. It's interesting in that it has Dewalt, Porter Cable, and Delta all mixed together.
My main point is to point out a Delta saw I haven't seen before. It looks like a Unisaw but has a heavy duty outrigger slider on it as well as a second motor powering a scoring blade.
Open the Delta flyer here:
http://www.houseoftools.com/content/houseoftoolscom/Flyers/FlyerinEffect.htm
Joe,
Here are a couple of pics of my Scheppach TS2500 - typical mid-priced European TS with all the bits. It is made in Germany and costs around £1500 / $3000 before tax. There is a 3-phse version of 5HP rather than the singlephase version of 3.5 HP. There is also a beefed up version called Fortsa (I think) ment for 7X5 commercial operation. Both these versions cost more.
The sliding table/carriage allows a full board to be cut across its width. The folding table to the right allows a 1.1 metre cut against the fence. Not shown is a take off table, which bolts to the back of the saw.
Also not shown is an alternate fence-face, which allows a false wooden face to be attached (eg a short one ending before the back of the blade) and has 2 spring hold-downs mounted on the top. The fence can be used on the other side of the blade, if preffered. The fence faces can be swapped out in 10 seconds. All these changes are achieved via T-tracks in the fence and its facings.
There is a mitre gauge with the saw too. This takes the microadjust (0.1mm scale)from the main sliding carrige crosscut fence. The mitre fence slides in a T-shaped groove in the cast iron top. (There is a groove to both the left and the right of the blade). I use the crosscut carriage 99.5% of the time. The mitre fence also fits their bandsaw tables, as does the fence.
There is integral dust extraction from the back of the saw via a pipe to the rear of the blade; and from the overhead guard.
The riving knife moves with the blade and is set just below it, to allow overcuts. The guard comes off in 3 seconds via a bristol lever.
Initial setup of the new saw takes a while but results in very, very good accuracy; and the setting do not wander off (not in 2 years of hobbyist use so far, anyway).
***
This is what a proper saw looks like. If you use such a beast you will never want a unisaw clone again.
It only lacks the sawstop flesh-detection system, which I for one would love to have on my saw.
Lataxe
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