Replies

1. 
   jake_w | Mar 14, 2021 06:28pm | #1

   The idea of never having a fastener in fine furniture is a bit of a farce. Screws and nails are highly useful in some situations (think bed bolts). That being said, you don't want to see the fasteners.

   I don't consider built in cabinets "fine furniture" and I build them differently than stand alone furniture. There are tons of ways to build cabinets and here is my method, it works with my tools and in my shop. You may have to adjust some techniques and methods, but that is fine.

   I build my carcases out of plywood. I veneer the show faces of some cabinets and others I screw a panel on from the inside. I dado all of my pieces together, mainly for alignment but they do add strength to the shelves. I screw through the outside of the sides if it will be hidden. This make assembly fast, but if it is a show face, everything is just glued together. Backs are plywood nailed into a rabbet.

   Faceframes are held together with glue and pocket screws on the inside. I use biscuits to align the faceframe to the carcass and glue it on. I use lots of clamps for this (like 20).

   Doors are M&T joints. They need to be strong. I tend to use flat panel, shaker style doors, but I still do M&T with rails and styles that have an edge profile. Dowels or a domino would also be a reasonable choice here. Many cabinet makers just use the rail and style bit that creates a coped joint. It works, but it is a weaker joint.

   Drawers are dovetails, frequently off the Leigh jig. Sometimes hand cut. For cabinets, I use Blum slides with the soft close and occasionally the tap to open. If you don't want to do dovetails, there are other options. I have even just dadoed the sides and nailed it together for quick shop cabinets.

   None of the fasteners show, there is no color matched putty. They look nice, better than the stuff you can buy from any store. After you build a few, they cost less than similar quality cabinets you can buy (and I didn't include labor, but I would rather spend 3 hours at work and 10 hours in the shop to purchase materials and building a cabinet than 10 hours at work to pay for the cabinet I want).

   I readily admit that I have 30 years of tool collecting that makes my method work, but with a router and a circular saw you can probably do most of this. A tablesaw does make everything easier in cabinet building.

1. 
   Bobby32x | Mar 15, 2021 11:57am | #6

   Thank you for this info. I have quite a few tools collected currently, including a sawstop 3hp table saw, several types of blades with different kerfs, etc. I also have a freud dado stack. Handful of routers (fixed and freehand). Your info has given me a lot to think about.

2. 
   hoovermd | Mar 14, 2021 10:58pm | #2

   I'm a fan of Confirmat (https://www.quickscrews.com/catalog/confirmat-screws) fasteners for basic carcass construction.
   I've done plenty of fancier stuff, but for quick plywood boxes this is the way to go.

3. 
   esch5995 | Mar 14, 2021 11:26pm | #3

   First bit of advice be wary of what you see on YouTube.

   The second question I have for you is the list of tools you provided the bulk of your woodshop or do you have traditional wood working tools such as a tablesaw? If not you are biting of quite a project.

   I also get the impression you intend to only replace a couple of cabinets, or even worse just replace the side panels, not the entire kitchen. It is very difficult even for pros to match new cabinets to existing cabinets so keep that in mind as well especially if you have a better half to please. Replacing just some crumbling particleboard side panels with "regular wood" I hope you mean plywood not solid wood, is a fools errand and not something any pro would undertake. You probably would find the entire cabinet in pieces if you tried to remove a damaged side panel of a builders grade 3/8" particleboard cabinet.

   As for the basic construction, face frames can be constructed with dowels joints as in most commercial cabinets, Domino's, my joint of choice, or some other type of loose tenon, or traditional mortise and tenon joints but this is time consuming in bulk, YouTubers love the pocket hole which will work but I don't love them.

   The face frames are rabbeted to accept the cabinet sides, bottom, top or stretchers glued and clamped no mechanical fastners are necessary. The backs should also be rabbeted and glued with ledgers used to flush the backs wherever the screws will be used to attach the cabinets to the wall.

1. 
   Bobby32x | Mar 15, 2021 12:12pm | #7

   you are right. I did not intend to put a full sheet of hardwood along the sides of the cabinet. I meant plywood with probably some edge banding for added protection. I also had considered the difficulty in matching the old cabinets to new wood and because of this, I purchased a finishers color wheel. The idea was to get a close match and try it on a piece of wood and decide if its close enough for my better half to live with. I also mentioned to her that This may spur me on to just rip all the upper cabinets out, remove the face frames and construct direct replacements out of plywood. This should be cheaper than replacing all the cabinets and if I don't like it, I can scrap the project before it becomes too crazy. I included a picture of the cabinets in the kitchen. the other side is not as bad, but still not great. The wife has gotten better at turning the stove vent hood on while cooking which forces the moisture out into the room as opposed to collecting in the area above the stove.

   
1. 
   esch5995 | Mar 15, 2021 06:26pm | #10

   As a professional kitchen remodeled I see that almost daily. The quality of cabinets builders use is so poor they don't even make good firewood.

   What you are contemplating doing I would never consider in a million years. I think you will find it much more difficult than you think to remove the faceframes and build new cases for them.

   I can't see the doors, but if they are raised panels there is a very good chance they aren't solid wood but veneered particle board or mdf instead in other words it's not just the cases that are cheaply constructed.

   If you really can't replace the cabinets at this time and the damage bothers you I would consider doing a semi reface. Skin the bottom of the cabinets with ¼ oak plywood, use a coordinating light rail molding to conceal the front edge and veneer the exposed side panels with real oak veneer, you can even buy it prefinished, covering the edges of the plywood. Just be sure to use epoxy adhesives to insure a permanent waterproof bond
   Be sure to use blue painters tape to keep the epoxy off of any unintended surfaces.

   Before doing any of this I would carefully examine the cabinets for signs of catastrophic failure, paying close attention to the rear corners of the wall cabinets and where the faceframes attach to the particleboard sides. These all areas subject to failure and separation.

1. 
   Bobby32x | Mar 15, 2021 08:30pm | #11

   Thank you for the info. The doors are raised panels, but I do know they are real wood. 1/4" plywood panel in a m&t style joinery. When we moved into the house, the setup they had in the kithen didn't make sense. They had a coat closet in the kitchen and the fridge was a really small barbie fridge that they put all the way to the left on one wall. This wall comes very close to the countertop where all the cabinets and countertop are. You had to turn your shoulders as you walked through to the living room. Anyway, I ripped the cabinets on the wall with the fridge and moved them to the garage for extra storage. The end cabinet had a hole where the microwave sat in. Was quite a weird cabinet if I do say so. I ripped this cabinet out, reverse engineered the cabinet and cut it down to a standard microwave cabinet. I included a picture of what it looks like now. Luckily, I was able to get this to work with the original pressboard and original face frame, though it all had to be cut to size and somehow I was able to do so without needing touch-up stain

   
4. 
   rob_ss | Mar 15, 2021 02:37am | #4

   Never say never in woodworking.
   Well, 'never' put your fingers into a fast rotating bit of metal and similar, but in terms of other things, don't cut your nose off to spite your face.
   Do what you enjoy and works for you.

   That having been said, as you will doubtless have noted, woodworkers can be judgemental, and no more so than ourselves when looking at our own work.

   You can of course make these things work without nails. Biscuits for instance are excellent for aligning and fixing face frames. You can easily screw a side panel in from inside the cabinet (though in slots to allow for movement)

   I have done these jobs on a small budget.

   Use pocket screw joinery where it will not be seen (pretty much everywhere) and you will have a strong cabinet that will last.

   To do ALL the work, you need:

   Something to cut sheet goods to size
   Something to cut timber to width and length
   Something to smooth timber
   Something to join timber.

   There are a great many ways to achieve this. If you can get S4S in the size you need then it's easier as you don't need to machine timber.
   Others have made long posts so I'll stop there.

5. 
   DRBWWing | Mar 15, 2021 09:52am | #5

   Really need more info maybe even a pic of the space.

   1. Are they painted?
   2. Are they free standing or a side against a wall? What does "almost as wide as opening" mean? You use 2" wide filler strip scribed to the wall.

   Lets just say I'm not a big fan of pocket screws for cab boxes and leave it at that. Cabinets are commonly made with simple butt joints and screwed from the sides you will never see the fasteners unless its a visible end cabinet. PS's not only take up more time, they are prone to misalignment when tightened.

   Boxes are commonly nailed for alignment purposes prior to screwing process. They are not intended to hold the box together.

   End panels are treated a bit differently depending on if painted or not. Painted, you can fasten with trim head screws, fill and you're good to go. Finished wood is a bit different in this case pocket holes are a good way to attach and hide fasteners. Another way is biscuits/Dominoes/tongue & groove/dado & glue.

   You're first decision is whether to go face frame or frameless (pssst --frameless!!)

1. 
   Bobby32x | Mar 15, 2021 12:31pm | #9

   The cabinet for the bathroom.... I just bought a tapering jig and wanted to build the vanity on four legs with the 2 inner sides of the legs tapered. I would like it to be a stained cabinet, but if I don't do a good enough job, it will get painted lol.
   kitchen cabinets are paper covered pressboard with a wood grain look on them

6. 
   Bobby32x | Mar 15, 2021 12:27pm | #8

   quick tool list off the top of my head
   SawStop 3hp table saw with 36" wing and a drop in router table with a down draft box and my dewalt 618M dropped in.
   backup dewalt 618pk (with fixed and plunge base)
   Jet dual stage dust collector
   powermatic mortiser with 6" riser block
   jet 14" bandsaw
   dewalt 735x planer
   dozens of chisels, a few hand planers, 2 brad gun , staple gun, clamps, skill saw, jigsaw, oscillating spindle sander, dewalt wireless disc sander, several other smaller tools.
   oh and a grizzly 8"x83" jointer due to arrive tomorrow (can't wait)

   My coworker cut his hand off on a chop saw. They put all his fingers back on and he is doing pretty well all things considered. Fingers are mobile but restricted on bending as he cut directly across the knuckles. Anyway, he was out for 10 months, came back for 2 months and went back out for an additional 2 months, so I pretty much worked 12 out of 14 months, everyday for 12 hours a day. Paid a bunch of things off and have some spending cash to buy some tools I want for the shop (hence the sawstop and the grizzly jointer)