Replies

1. 
   craigpw | Mar 23, 2006 05:57pm | #1

   I have been using TurboCad for less an a year and agree there is a steep learning curve.  I  planned my shop including a cyclone with ductwork but I have not created any furniture plans.  I have TurboCad Deluxe 10 - do you use a professional version? Do you use 3D much? Which tools do you find most useful? I have tried the trial version of SketchUp which is easier to use but I not sure it worth the money. Do you have any experience with SkethUp?

1. 
   DonStephan | Mar 24, 2006 04:17am | #3

   I started with TC 10.2 Deluxe but finally upgraded to 11.2 Pro because I kept encountering glitches and minor gremlins. Haven't had any problems I can recall with this version.The tools I use most often are I think the ones used in the tutorial. If drawing what will eventually be a 3D subject I work directly in 3D, again as in the tutorial.Lots of people speak very highly of Sketchup but I have no experience with it.

1. 
   craigpw | Mar 24, 2006 08:40pm | #4

   Thanks. I just starting reading your tutorial about TurboCad and it is very helpful.

2. 
   wood_donkey | Mar 23, 2006 09:42pm | #2

   Hey,

   The the steep learning curve that you speak of does exist, not only in the "complexity" of the software, but the "language of drafting" as well.  The whole idea of  "drafting" as opposed to drawing (sketching) is an idea of considerable complexity in itself.  So combining the learning of the software and the concepts of drafting together it does seem to be a daunting task.  The software that has the potential for "quick" learning are those that are designed for simple sketch type drawing.  Creating complex technical drawings does require software that is a little more robust, although not expensive. In all honesty to grasp a "industrial" level software (AutoCAD, ProEngineer, SolidWorkds, etc.), they do need a course level (trade school, technical/community college, or university) immersion of instruction to really harness the power of what CAD can do.

   For the home user, the simple sketched based software packages are just fine - most of which do come with tutorials that are somewhat helpful.  As with any software you need to learn the small simple tools/functions to move along to the next level of mastery - DON'T SKIP STEPS!!!

   I do all of my plans with AutoCAD and occasionally I will use MasterCAM if I am doing CNC router work (it all looks the same when printed out).

   Donkey

1. 
   PCM | May 18, 2006 07:23pm | #12

   Donkey,

   I went to school for drafting, using ACAD 14, then drafted for a surveyor/civil engineer for about a year. I never learned 3-D (the instructor didn't know how to use it and I didn't use it at the job).

   I have ACAD 2000 loaded for furniture design, but am having a rough time getting started on 3-D.

   Any ideas on how to get started, books etc.

   Thanks!

   Pete

    

    

3. 
   user-144680 | May 17, 2006 06:32pm | #5

   I have just down loaded your TC file but I am a bit tight fisted and have not upgraded from TC 9 any chance you could do a save as in a older format than 10.

   Thanks

4. 
   Art975 | May 18, 2006 12:50am | #6

   I've not seen TurboCad but have an ancient/cheap copy of KeyCAD. One thing I've looked for in the "Features" section of CAD software is a nice way to draw and play with curves, like for the organic style of contemporary pieces. Strangely enough, another hobby (stained glass) may have spoiled me in this regard. A program called "GlassEye" lets me draw freehand curves with the mouse and add/delete "knots", which are the points through which the curve is drawn. I can grab any knot and move it around to change the flow of the curve. This makes drawing a visually-pleasing fair curve of any shape at all a very simple matter, closed shapes included (like for a freeform tabletop).  Does TC have a feature like this, together with dimensioning the result in some way?

   If you're interested, http://www.dfly.com/index.html is the site for GlassEye, and they have a free 30day download with limited function (the curve-drawing is there, you just can't save or print anything - as I recall).

1. 
   DonStephan | May 19, 2006 04:04pm | #18

   Although still rather a novice with the program, I have found that TC has three curve tools and a node edit feature that allows the user to alter an existing curve as you describe. Bezier, spline fit and spline control point are the three curves. There is a significant learning curve with TC however.

1. 
   Dave45 | May 19, 2006 04:34pm | #19

   Has anyone gone from AutoCad LT to TurboCad?  What was the learning curve like to make the switch?

   I've been using PC's for 25 years and have learned and used dozens of programs.  Three word processors, three spreadsheets, several versions of dBase, and two CAD programs.  In my experience, the steepest learning curve is on the first program.  For example, I went thru hell learning WordStar but finally got pretty good with it.  Later moves to WordPerfect and Word weren't very difficult because I wasn't trying to learn what a word processor could do - I just needed to learn how to make this new program do what I needed.

   TurboCad seems to be the best (i.e. least expensive) choice for 3D work so I'm very tempted.

5. 
   Dave45 | May 18, 2006 03:01am | #7

   Once you get profecient with it, CAD can save you a ton of time and money.  I've been using AutoCad LT for over 10 years and will grab the mouse before I'll touch a pencil - lol

   I use it to do conceptual designs while the customer and I work out the details of their project, then I build the entire project in the computer before I walk into the shop.   I always tell customers that electrons are cheap but changes after the cutting starts are gonna be real costly - lol.

   Every piece is drawn and dimensioned - including every rabbet, dado, miter,...... whatever.  I don't even want to think about how much time and money I've saved because I found and corrected a problem during the drawing and not after the cutting.

   Saving the designs is also a real lifesaver.  I've bid three jobs this past week that are variations of other jobs I've done.  On one of them, it took me about 45 minutes to alter some old job drawings for a china hutch into a new drawing for an entertainment center.

   My biggest problem is the lack of 3D capability with AutoCad LT.  2D drawings make perfect sense to me, but most customers have problems "seeing" their project.  I guess that one of these days I'm gonna have to bite the bullet and go 3D.

1. 
   killenwood | May 18, 2006 07:28am | #8

   Dave45, about one year ago, I switched to 3D and will never go back. There was a large learning curve but well worth it.

   I agree with your stated processes of getting the details down in the design before going to the shop. This is how I'm doing all my projects including details of dovetails. Because of the detail, the shop time is much more fun, efficient, higher quality, and much less rework.

   I create a lot of full-size templates from the 3D model, and use these to mark the joint details. This is another advantage of having all the details worked out in the model.

   Attached is example. I use SketchUp.

   Tim

   
1. 
   questtools | Jul 13, 2006 07:19pm | #20

   Tim, the Pine Cupboard you created in Sketchup is amazing and its just what I need to kick my drawings, and perhaps my small part time woodowrking business up to the next level.

   I am just exploring CAD, moving away from pen and paper,  and I think that Sketchup is all I need for the type of drawings that I would use in my small woodworking business.  I looked at your dimensioned drawings and these are  perfectly acceptable for the work completed in my shop; therefore,  either myself or my customer could see what the final piece would look like and there is the additional benefit, that the creation of the drawing would help to logically plan the execution of the wood processes themselves. Correct?

   Two questions I would like to propse to you:

   I have just begun looking into CAD and played briefly with the Sketchup tutorials -  how long do you suspect it took you to get reasonably proficient at the program? To make the question more direct - how long do you estimate for a newbie like me to get proficient enough to create the diagram you created of the Pine Cupboard?

   Which version of Sketchup are you using? Is the PRO version necessary?

   Thanks

   Bob

1. 
   killenwood | Jul 13, 2006 08:55pm | #21

   Bob, I agree that using a 3D system kicks woodworking up to a higher level. It helps in these ways:

   1. Creating conceptual options for furniture pieces

   2. Showing concepts to customers and getting decisions

   3. Detailing the design and showing in multiple ways to ease visualization of complex joints.

   4. Precision in dimensions and sizing of all components

   5. Multiple views to help with construction

   6. Production of full-size templates to ensure accurate marking out of component and joint cuts

   7. Overall streamlining of the construction process with less mistakes

   On your first question.... I was already fairly proficient with a 2D program before jumping into SketchUp. This could be a negative thing, since for me, switching to 3D from 2D background is a big jump. No longer are you concentrating on placing lines, rather understanding planes and their interfaces. It probably took me a 3-month period to feel proficient in SketchUp. I don't mean this was full time on the program. Perhaps it took me say 5 weeks working 40 hours per week, to really get a handle on it. I want to be clear that this is not just making pretty pictures, rather getting down into the very small joint details (dovetails, M&T, T&G, etc.). To do pretty pictures would take less time.

   I'm using the PRO version. I am not that familiar with the differences, having only messed with the free version for about an hour. I got the idea that with the free version, you'd be able to do what I showed for the cupboard.

   Tim

6. 
   odomoro | May 18, 2006 04:36pm | #9

   Hi

   I am using eCabinets Systems from Thermwood. http://www.ecabinetsystems.com/ (software)

   It's a free and powerful software with a low learning curve.

   CAD starts from scratch...

   eCabinets starts from a library (yours and/or standard) and to change a cabinet its simple as change one of your dimensions (w/h/x)... the software recalculate all things (doors, shelves, etc)

   The software do reports for drawings, cut list, nesting, cost, proposals, etc...

   Its a must

1. 
   adverseyaw | May 18, 2006 05:36pm | #10

   I have used TurboCAD 10 and find it cumbersome to design in. For designing I would recomment Sketchup 5.0 (free at http://sketchup.google.com). It is easy to use and understand. Then, one the project is designed transfer to TurboCAD. If you purchase the pro version it exports dxf/dwg files.
   Just my 2 cents.
   AdverseYaw

1. 
   bones | May 18, 2006 07:44pm | #13

   I tried sketchup last year and had trouble getting up to speed and forgot about it. I went back last week and saw the google sketcup and went through the tutorial and it was pretty nice. It had me draw a house and add a deck and I was going pretty quick.  I'm sure the pro edition has more bells and whistles.  Pretty cool for free!

1. 
   adverseyaw | May 18, 2006 08:47pm | #14

   Here is a list of what Sketchup Free _WON'T_ do from sketchup website:WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?So what's the difference between Google SketchUp (free) and SketchUp Pro 5? Lots, actually:- Pro users are able to print and export raster images at higher-than-screen resolution.- Pro users have access to the following 3D export formats: DWG, DXF, 3DS, OBJ, XSI, VRML and FBX.- Pro users are able to export animations and walkthroughs as MOV (Mac) or AVI (Windows) files.- Pro users get the Sandbox Tools (for organic modeling of terrain, etc) and the Film & Stage Tools (for pre-viz work).- Pro users have access to free email tech support for two years after they buy SketchUp Pro.- Finally, only SketchUp Pro is approved for commercial use; the Free version is licensed for personal use only.

1. 
   bones | May 18, 2006 09:33pm | #15

   Thanks for the info.  Most of the extras I would not need anyway. I'm just a hobbyist.  I have tried to learn cad several times, but always end up giving up and getting the old pencil and paper and eraser. Let's see what happens.  The sketch up tutorial was great. You saw what was to happen on the left of the screen and drew on the right, so you knew how things flowed. Very intuitive. 

7. 
   Daggs | May 18, 2006 05:55pm | #11

   CAD for Free (I think).  I've never installed any of these programs yet.

   http://freshmeat.net/search/?q=cad&section=projects&Go.x=0&Go.y=0

    

   Here is a thread I started in another forum I live on that discusses desktop CAD.

   http://www.edodo.org/rumormill/viewtopic.php?t=12546

8. 
   Walt | May 19, 2006 12:45am | #16

   I had the opportunity to use autsketch at work.  I bought a copy for myself and now use it at home in my design work.  Overall I like it and it gives a good view.  The learning curve is a little steep but I feel well worth it.

9. 
   user-69221 | May 19, 2006 01:29am | #17

   Don:

   I have been a TurboCAD user since Ver. 1 and just upgraded to their latest and best version yet...ver 12.  Now that I have trained myself using IMSI's training manuals (2D and 3D) I almost work exclusively in 3D which allows me to "build" a project in Model Space.  I don't even bother with Paper Space since my projects are for my own construction and Model Space, the design platform, allows me to communicate everything needed to print dimensioned drawings to personally use to build whatever I want.

   Over the years that I have used TurboCAD, whenever I had a problem I just got on the TurboCAD User Forum, stated my problem, and within an hour or so received numerous helpful inputs from fellow, more experienced, users.  I have always thought this forum was one of TurboCAD's best unheralded features. 

   In my experience and opinion there is no better deal in CAD software than TurboCAD Pro (TCP).  There are lots of free TCP tutorials that guide the new user, step by step, through some fairly complicated designs.  These can be located on various TCP related websites that can be discovered on http://www.turbocad.com .

   Regards,

   Jim Nuss