Lie-Nielsen sells camellia oil for use on tools, and others do also. I bought some from them and have been using it on my planes between uses and have had no problems with tarnish or rusting. It comes in a pump bottle but I bought a bottle with a wick and cap from Tools For Working Wood that I like better.
I have not noticed any odor and it does not seem to harm the wood as it is removed easily when getting ready to use the plane by wiping. I couldn’t guarantee that this is the only reason I have not had any rust, but I have not had any since using the camellia oil. 🙂
Bruce
“A man’s got to know his limitations.” Dirty Harry Calahan
Edited 9/18/2008 9:20 am ET by Wingdoctor
Replies
I also use the camellia oil from Lie-Nielsen. The only downside that I've experienced is that it's a drying oil - that is, it will congeal and harden after a few months. You can easily remove the residue with some laquer thinner, however.
For those who're looking for it using a search engine (such as at Tools for Working Wood), it's spelled c-a-m-i-l-i-a. Took me awhile. I've been wanting to get some for this winter, thanks for the sources.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Even though I bought my applicator from TFWW the "camilia" spelling suprised me. Lie-Nielsen spells it "camellia." So does the spell checker here at FWW. Thanks for the info.
Bruce"A man's got to know his limitations." Dirty Harry Calahan
W,
You can get the camilia oil (bowever you spell it) from Woodcraft.
I have been using it. It works fine. However, I used to use an old can of Johnson's paste wax that I inherited from my mother. I believe she paid a dollar for it in a decade long ago. I still use it on all of my tool table tops. I don't see that the camelia oil does any better or any worse than the MUCH cheaper paste wax.
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
And I use a spray can of Bee's wax. For tools I know will sit for periods of non-use, I too use good ol' paste wax. In my case, Butcher's because I use it for furniture as well.
Camellia (no matter how it is spelled) really isn't a rust preventative. It is mearly a short-term means of slowing oxidization. Any of the short-term means work fine. Heck, synthetic motor oil is a better rust preventative and I know many who use it on their site tools.
Take care, Mike
Wineman,
The oil works great. I put a thin coat on the tools using a paper towel, it keeps the rust at bay; probably helps that prior to oiling, I clean all the dust off the tools, too. The camellia oil I use came from The Japan Woodworker.
So far, I've not experienced the oil congealing on the tools as indicated by dkellernc. My garage is unheated, and even in temperate SF Bay Area, it can get chilly (for us) during winter; an iron plane is no fun to hold when standing on slab concrete, when both are equally the temperature of cold milk. Part of winter woodshop hibernation is chisels and planes get a complete cleaning and a coat of camellia oil. For the LN planes, I wrap them in same Ferro-Pak sheet they came with. Come spring time, I use them right from the box, no rust, no fuss.
Cheers,
Seth
I used it on my planes and chisels every time I finished using them..until one of my shop cats knocked it over and licked it up..apparently it's non-toxic as Tripod is still around..she hasn't developed any rust now that I think about it..
Neil
Edited 9/18/2008 3:59 pm ET by noviceneil
>downside that I've experienced is that it's a drying oil
Well it is not supposed to be ! But yes I agree it does dry and collect dust and walnut is worse.
Camilia is one of the secret ingredients in my bubinga finish (not because it dries) that I worked on for a whole winter once. But I have said too much.
I like paste wax to lube to lessen friction while cutting. I go back and forth with the camilia oil for this purpose. One advantage is if you use one of those bench top wicks to drag your plane across while planning or stab your chisel into for mortising the oil doesn't dry fast enough to be a spontaneous combustion hazard.
To prevent rust, pretty dry here in Colorado, I think a very thin wipped on coat of WD-40 in the bulk is a good cheep coating between work sessions. My feeling has always been that it has a bit of bees wax in it but I am probably completely wrong on that one.
>lacquer thinner
I go out of my way to stay away from that stuff on a daily contact basis. Especially in winter it fills the shop and what do you do with the rag until it dries? Bad stuff/no thanks/I am not set up to deal with it safely.
>cats
Don't talk about cats. I am recovering from a bad bicycle accident from a cat running across the street and directly into my front wheel. Brainless wonders ! If it wasn't for a helmet I would be drooling right now or worse. (seems the cat was fine after word) I have tried to like cats. I HATE CATS !
To recap camilia: good lubricant for cutting/plane bottoms, not good for coating tools, plays minor role in wood finish in rare cases.
Do not like walnut oil for coating tools, is good on salads.
Edited 9/18/2008 4:41 pm by roc
Edited 9/18/2008 4:48 pm by roc
Edited 9/18/2008 4:50 pm by roc
Have been using camellia oil to lubricate sharpening (turning an edge) on cabinet scrapers. It's heavy enough to work and doesn't leave the mess that ordinary oil does.
Wine guy, sorry to burst the C oil bubble but after using it for a few years I found that if wiped on religiously, when ever you left the shop, it was ok. On short term lay up I had finger prints and on long term a yellow/orange haze mostly on ductile iron first and less on old clean cast iron.
I then found T-9 and it is fault tolerant and has NEVER failed to protect all my planes/hand tools and ALL the cast iron tables of two TS, BS, Jointer, planner and a bunch of other saws and cast tools. This includes a 3 season lock up in the unheated 1,100' shop in East TN. and I didn't remember to wipe down before I left. I could not ask for better than that . Paddy
BTW. Keep the walnut oil in the kitchen -not for the cutting boards as it may go rancid- it's great on salads.
Paddy,
The best way to protect valuable handtools is to make up a batch of the secret potion. Use three parts carnuba wax, three parts mineral spirits, and three drops of cow urine. Mix them up thoroughly at midnight on a night of the full moon. Spin around three times, and say the magic words, and there you have it.But T-9 is much easier to use.So isn't paste wax.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
From a physics perspective, no oil is really a "rust preventative" in the sense that it keeps rust from forming, though the ferro-wrap packaging and other treatments out there that are not specifically an oil do prevent rust by providing a reducing atmosphere (iron is the reduced form of the metal, rust is the oxidized form).Oils work as retarders of corrosion by preventing the buildup of moisture around the coated part - they're "hydrophobic", and the film that's put on a tool by wiping it down slows down the oxidation reaction by removing the necessary catalyst - water. Some oils are so hydrophobic that they have close to a zero water content at equilibrium with the atmosphere. Those include most synthetic and refined petrochemical oils, especially fluorocarbon oils ("teflon" oils). Most of the natural oils, like camelia, walnut, linseed, etc... will have some water content at equilibrium with water in the atmosphere, and so won't entirely prevent oxidation of the iron in steel. However, this oxidation is so slow that the pratical effect is indeed a rust-preventer.
I, too, use camelia oils and can recommend it.
Is "paste wax" the same as furniture wax? If so, be careful - anything that contains silicon (as furniture waxes tend to do) will affect your finish. What I like about camelia oil is that it is finish friendly.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Mel, can I substitute horse urine? I have a reliable supply!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FG,
YOu can substitute anything you'd like. It is important that when you tell others, that you keep a straight face, and sound very officious, and say something riduculous like, The only sane way to go is to mix, 5.5 parts of mineral oil, with 2.7 parts of turpentine , and add three drops of horse urine. AND it is important that the urine be passed in the morning.
Good to hear from you. Keep having fun.
Yuk yuk.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Oh, dear, I guess that recipe is out for me -- I don't wake up early enough to be collecting horse urine in the morning! ROFL!!!
Seriously, though, I'm going to try the Camellia (Camilia, whatever) oil this winter because I won't be keeping the shop heated as consistently as in the past.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
If you want to try the oil this winter and you are going to be in my area I'll give you a bottle. Boeshield T9 is far superior and sorry dear I'm not giving up any of my T9!! I have most of a 240ml bottle that you are welcome to.
................................................
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES...THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING, BUT...THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
If I drive up and take that oil off your hands, can you scare up the Porter-Cable screw for me too? I keep looking at that fence, knowing i can't mount it to the router. Not that I've needed to, mind you, but..... Anyhoo, I've started spending some time in the shop again lately. Feels great! (Especially that SCMS, sweeeeeeeeet!)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I mailed 2 sets. I have no more to mail.
I can do for you what I did for mine, I tapped them for a commonly available size.
Bring the base with you and I will drill and tap it for an easily available size.
Did you get the safety button squared away?
................................................
SOME PEOPLE ARE LIKE SLINKIES...THEY ARE NOT REALLY GOOD FOR ANYTHING, BUT...THEY STILL BRING A SMILE TO YOUR FACE WHEN YOU PUSH THEM DOWN A FLIGHT OF STAIRS
Goodness, I did not receive them! Was this "way back when"?? Jeez, not sure what happened, but our mailbox is in a "rural row" on the road, so there are several possibilities.
Yes, the safety button....I pulled, with no luck, but then saw that slot peeking out and realized I needed to squeeze a bit, so got out the needlenose and picked it right out. A quick puff of air, and dusting off, it works great now. Thanks.
Can't tell you how much I love that saw, so glad I bought it. I had some 26" plywood I needed to cross-cut, didn't need to be beautiful, so I took a swipe from each side and finished off the nubbin in the middle with a hand saw. Much easier than trying to wrestle with it on the table saw!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
By the way Horse Urine is superb for ageing brass.
Newt,
horse urine may be good for aging brass, but if you want to make counterfeit antique gold jewelry, the best way to get the patina, is to force feed the ring to a goose. This can be a nasty proposition, and you will prabably have to have help. In about three days, the goose needs to be sacrificed, and then the ring can be retrieved. So it is best to use a goose that you plan to do away with in a few days. I am fairly sure, you will not find a better substance for aging gold jewelry quickly than the gastric acids of a goose. Maybe we can pool our knowledge and come up with a book that will make us a lot of money. MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I once worked with a guy who claimed that he cured athlete's foot by bathing in his own wawtuh. (He was English.) I never got close enough to him to check the veracity of his claim.
Jim
Mel, being a damn Yankee I made sure to check with my southern neighbors and the boys say that ya almost got it rite. (are ya paying attention F.G.) What ya need is the urine of a young bull -the first pass of the early mornin the earliest after sunrise is more effective - not from some old cow.
As for the tools, the old wax was great but, IIRC, T-9 is a solvent that delivers very fine waxes that fall into the pores of the iron so well that a test by some mag proved that it was better than all the magic solutions on cast iron tested in salt water.( as an old sailor I know that dirty women, bad rum or salt water can destroy everythin) After that test, when the T-9 section was still fine, they left it in the salt water I think as a joke for -I forget- maybe another month with only small problems.
Each time I visit the new digs I dress all the big cast iron with Waxlit that super slippery $hit sold at LV and it's also good . If ya patent some of your new mixture I would hope that you would send your friends and kin a complementary bottle. All the best Paddy
Paddy,
Thanks. I needed that.
I am a fan of T-9, but have never used Waxlit. I will look into it.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
It's good stuff although a bit expensive. For those in the NW, it is carried at Hardwicks in the U district in Seattle. Last time I looked they had two sizes at not TOO CRAZY a price compared to other sellers.
I use a drop or two on my edge tools prior to putting them away and have had no rust problems.
Regards,
Mack
"Close enough for government work=measured with a micrometer, marked with chalk and cut with an axe"
Does any one use Camellia oil
I do but never keeps the skeeters out of my shop!
It comes in a pump bottle..
So does extra virgin olive oil!
Wineman,
>WD-40 not good because interferes with finish.
Message received and understood. I just use on my metal working tools so far. No rust problems on my wood working tools where I am; Colorado and no longer in a basement. Thank you powers that be !
To be honest I use the Renaissance brand micro crystalline wax on the saws. I can not say I recommended it. It works but it is now $25 for a small tin ! Krenov recommends it on some types of wood so I bought it to try when it was $18 a tin.
Hey you are going to like this (or laugh; one of the two).
I have been making my secondary wood parts for my tool chest drawers from camphor wood. It is an old tail that says it prevents rust. Incase I ever get stuck in a basement again. Beautiful wood for the purpose in any case. Almost impossible to buy; at least a couple of years ago. I called all over the US after I read about it's supposed magicalness. I finally found a supply a hundred miles from my house ! When you work it or wet it it smells just like the stuff Mom put on your chest when you were a kid and had a cold. You can feel the "fumes" in your eyes a little as well when you work it.
It is fairly light colored but occasionally has these very nice red brown stripes here and there and pores sort of like bamboo. Easy to work fairly soft good secondary wood (for tool boxes). I am using walnut for the primary wood for the cabinet and drawer fronts. All hand dovetailed cabinets and drawers. Picture shallow drawer tool boxes like SnapOn machinist's tool boxes. I am using this basic scheme:
http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2846
Hey I never said I wasn't nuts.
Roc,
Charles Schwartz has an interesting short article on the use of camelia oil, WD-40, etc on hand tools. You can read it on:http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/CategoryView,category,Finishing.aspxBasically, he says that, over the years, he has used them all, with no ill effects on his tools. In fact, he used the same rag for applying all of them.In other words, an active woodworker has tried them all, and he has found no bad effect either on the tools or the resulting woodwork. Isn't it delightful to actually have a fact in this conversation. Of course, it brings the conversation to a sharp close, except for people who don't believe in using experience to guide further action.Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
That is just insane wiping sharpening slurry onto the bottom of a hand plane to get into the wood and dull the blade. I am beside myself with dismay . . . in addition It is unbelievable he has not had problems with the iron causing problems mixing with the tannins in oak to cause gray cast on his work. I hope I wake up from this night mare soon. I swoon from the implications! Charles, Charles, Charles what are ya thinkin' boy !>fact and experienceIf one has a bit of imagination one does not have to get bitten by the dog to know it may be undesirable.(This oily goop can easily travel two plane cuts .002" to .003" bellow the surface) One knows how oil spreads and spreads infinitely thin. Oil calming troubled waters and all. Not on my planes. Capillary effect drawing it down into the fine pores ( maple ) on a microscopic level only to come back up when the temp changes.I like Charles but he must have been high when he wrote this one. Or . . Or . . . an impostor wrote it ! Yah that's it an impostor. Some people think that some of the last Sherlock Holmes stories were written by someone else. e.g., the story of the Creeping Man . . . just too silly to think the author wasn't at least tung in cheeking it if not completely absent.Poppy cock, Bolder dash! Harrumph !Edited 9/27/2008 1:24 am by rocEdited 9/27/2008 1:48 am by roc
Edited 9/27/2008 1:50 am by roc
Yah, I'd say that practice is not good- I mean , what could he blow his nose on?
Rags in my shop get nasty mighty fast as I prefer them to those that I wear (unlike some folk who look like pull-throughs when they emerge from their shop after a few hours work... So I buy them by weight and enjoy the luxury....Philip Marcou
Hi Philip,
What does the phrase "some people look like pull throughs" mean?
Neil
All - From a safety perspective, it is unsafe to store any oily rags in a large mass, regardless of what oil they're contaminated with. One small rag has too much surface area and therefore too much heat transfer to spontaneously combust under normal circumstances, but a wastecan half-full of them is a danger.
Drying oils, particularly with accelerants like cobalt salts, are especially prone, but a fire education safety officer will always tell you to store oily rags in a metal fire safety can, preferably full of water, regardless of the identity of the oil.
Neil,
Since I am an ex artillery man I owe an explanation- a pull through is that item which is pulled through the barrel of a field piece to clean it after firing.... In fact any gun. I think the black powder brethren call it a patch.Philip Marcou
Thanks Philip,
I have always found language to be fascinating. I wouldn't have guessed that one.
Neil
Neil,
Yes, always a source of amusement. You want to get Ray Pine waxing lyrical-he is the maestro.
In my particular intake there was one extra skinny individual-so his nickname was Pullthrough, naturally. Then there was Wingnut- he had big ears and some said he should he should have joined the airforce. And there was Murmur (should appeal to you) who had a heart condition .Philip Marcou
Mel,
He did not mention Marvel Mystery Oil in his shop rag treatise. This means he is uninformed and obviously a hack, as his experience is different from mine. I'm never going to agree with anything else he writes. ..Except the beer part. That's just common sense.
Ray
Ray,
I agree about the Marvel Mystery Oil. Schwartz shoulda mentioned it.So tell me: what do you do with the rag you use to wipe your tools, stones, etc of the MMO? Do you hang it so that is it not in a pile? In other words, how do you handle the safety problem of oily rags from sharpening?While we are on that subject, I have another question: What oils do I need to worry about, and what oils are not a problem? I suppose that linseed oil, machine oil, Watco, paint thinner, varnish, etc are all flammable. I suppose that camelia oil, mineral oil and walnut oil are not.What is the reality of it? Thank you.
Mel
PS - I am overly careful and use too many paper towels which then go in a can of water, outside.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Oxidation of oil is what causes a heat build-up. As long as it dissipates (faster than it builds up) there is no problem. You do not see an oil-coated piece of furniture (large area for dissipation) go up in smoke.
Spread out the rags - or soak them with water. It takes a lot of heat to evaporate the water.
Best wishes,
Metod
Metod,
Thank you very much for the information. I knew that oxidation causes the heat build up, but what causes some oils to oxidize and others not to? Of course it is the contents of the oil. But linseed oil is made from flax seed, and it oxidizes, and walnut oil, which comes from the walnut, does not cause a problem of oxidation. Which oils are not a problem?
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Any oil that dries is due to oxidization. The issue is whether the heat that is generated is sufficient to cause flamability. Oils such as Camilla, Walnut et al dry so slowly as to not be flammable. Oils such as Linseed and especially BLO (which has metallic driers in it) and Tung dry quick enough to generate heat.
The conditions required seem to be low oxygen, but not absent of same, and slow enough drying but not as slow as Walnut oil. Which is why spreading out rags that have combustable mixtures in them presents enough oxygen to dissipate generated heat and piled rags do not. It is the inner rags which combust, not the ones exposed to the atmosphere.
Rags in an enclosed container do not have enough exposure to oxygen and so the driers and or drying process are not encouraged to dry fast enough to flame on.
Take care, Mike
Mike,
Thank you very much. I got it now.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel
Go for a jog. Then you will learn even more about oxidation than Mike let you on - and the resulting heat generation, and the desire to dissipate it. Planing with a dull iron works too. <g>
Best wishes,
Metod
Mel,
The rag stays on the bench top, right here..somewhere...I just use it to wipe the whetstones off, I don't wipe tools with oily rags of any kind, much less gritty ones. I have found that the bodies of my wooden planes seldom rust. The layer that accumulates on the metal ones, I call patina. In a hundred years, collectors won't want to polish it off, for fear of reducing the value of the piece, so why should I disappoint them, by preventing its development? The only rust problem I've had was the time a mouse pi$$ed on one of my chisels. That stuff is potent, I'm here to tell you. It not only rusted, but pitted that chisel, RIGHT NOW! Of course it was right on the maker's mark too. So my pine knot brand chisel has an illegible stamp on it.
Oily rags, as Mike pointed out are a danger if they are drying oils. I have a friend who had a pile of oily (Watco) rags spontaneously combust on a hot day. He was wiping down a set of chairs, and was discarding the rags in a pile on his deck til he got done, and could dispose of them properly. They started smoking before he had wiped off the set. In another shop, they had a fire one evening in the finishing room. Sprinklers put it out, and the fire marshall traced the origin to a glass jar on a shelf. The jar had contained linseed oil. The investigator surmised that the evening sun shining thru the window hit the jar in just the right way to cause it to combust.
Now we know from reading the label, that MMO does not dry or form varnish, gums, or sludge, but provides a thin lubricating film even at temperatures of an auto combustion chamber. If it does catch on fire, (label says it is refined petroleum distillates, so it is flammable) it won't leave any carbon or gum, but only a lubricating residue. Isn't that reassuring?
The mineral oil family's flammability is related to their volatility, ie how fast they want to evaporate. Thus gasoline is more flammable than motor oil. MMO I guess is somewhere around kerosene or mineral spirits. You could probably (don't try this and say that I said you could) drop a lit match into a container of it and it'd go out. But a thin film as in a rag, would go up in a flash.
Why does flammable mean the same thing as inflammable? Like a fat chance, and a slim one...
Ray
Ray,
Sorry about the mouse peeing on your chisel.
I understand the theory of spontaneous combustion. I was wondering what you do with the rag. The answer is that you just leave it on your workbench. Got it. I have been being far too cautious.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Just to avoid any confusion. That is the rag I use on the oilstones, lying on the bench. Rags wet with finishing oil (linseed, minwax, ets) go into the wood stove, where it won't matter if they catch on fire.
See you,
ray
Ray,
I am no longer confused. Thank you.
Things were rough back when I was confused.
I see you use linseed oil. What do you use linseed oil on?
If this is too personal a question, please do not provide details.
Thank you.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
What do you use linseed oil on?
If this is too personal a question, please do not provide details.
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
Lee
Lee,
I asked the question in all seriousness, except for the humor. I know the kind of furniture that Ray makes, but I have never talked to him about the finishes he puts on the pieces. I was wondering if he ever uses linseed oil as a primary finish. Also, does he use it in cleaning up an old piece of furniture. I really am not up to speed on the finishes that were used by Tommy Chippendale and his associates. I have never had real access to such work, and have not tried to work in that genre. I am learning at an amazing rate. Given my age, it is either learn fast, or it might not happen. :-)Glad my way of wording the question gave you a smile.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Too personal? Naw, now if you'd asked about where I apply spindle oil...
I have a gal of boiled linseed oil that I bought back in the 70's. I think I still have most of it, so you see, I don't use it often. Occasionally, a customer will specify a linseed oil finish on a new piece, but I don't recommend it. It makes for a pretty finish for sure, but its documented tendency to go (very) dark over time has put me off it. Instead, I use either Minwax Antique Oil or one of the "tung oil finishes" that are out there, when someone wants a generic "oil finish".
I just mentioned linseed oil as one of the drying oils that have a marked tendency to combust of their own volition, (rather like some politicians) knowing that it is popular for "popping the grain" here on knots, not because I have piles of rags soaked with it myself.
Ray
Ray,
Forget that spindle oil.Thanks for the info on the linseed oil. Your feelings and mine are similar on the stuff. I have a small can that I bought a long time ago. I used in only on a few things. Lately I put some on the sole of the Kenewa wood plane that I flattened the sole of. What should I have used on the sole of an old wooden plane? Minwax antique oil?MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
One coat of linseed oil on that plane won't hurt a thing. Don't worry, be happy. My wooden plane soles are mostly naked, except for whatever parafin has been absorbed. It's all good. I'd leave the MMO off of it, tho, the can says it will increase compression, and you might not be able to kick-start the thing.
Ray
Can MMO be taken internally? Can we be on to something that can be an aid to males everywhere to help with internal compression and subsequent firing?
T.Z.
Tony I wouldn't recommend MMO for internal consumption. Specifically states on the can, in addition to your optimistic reading, it will absolutely prevent scoring. For your application,stick with the spindle oil, is my recommendation.
Ray
Maybe Resilone or Bardal (spelling maybe be off). I believe these products were taken internally to clean the cobwebs out of your pipes.
T.Z.
Ray,
OK, I will go for naked wood soles from now on.
Low compression, No MMO.So one last (ha ha ha) question in this series.You use Minwax Antique Oil. That recent contest that FWW had on wipe on finishes had Minwax Wipe On Poly come in first place. To your knowledge, is there much difference between MAO and MWOP?I am not so much interested in theory and in the content of the two, but in the applications of the two. Like you said, when someone asks for BLO, you suggest MAO. Would MWOP not be appropriate? eg because of too much plastic and not enuf oil?Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
I've never tried the wipe-on poly. Can't compare the two.
Sorry,
Ray
I am quite sure this Marvel Mystery Oil of yours is nothing but Bay Rum-am I correct??Philip Marcou
Philip,
As a result of info from Ray, I tried Marvel Mystery Oil, and switched from Norton honing oil to MMO. It is OBVIOUSLY better. You can feel it when you touch it, and when you put your tool on the oil on the stone. Not too thick. Not to thin, and it doesn't harden or skin over. Infinitely better than WD40 which leaves a bad residue and gums things up after a while.MMO is made up of:
- petroleum derivatives.
- 3 parts per million of camelia oil
- 4 drops per gallon of Hereford cow urine
Also when they mix up a batch, they throw a small mouse in the 1000 gallon mixer. They wouldn't tell me why. Give it a try.
Also works in your car ( add it to the engine oil, not the radiator, or the window washer fluid). I remember kids using it back in the 50s when I was growing up, when they were working on old cars that they could afford, but that had seen better days. Up here in the Northern Hemisphere, when you pour it into the oil system, it flows in a clockwise fashion. When you do it in New Zealand, it should flow counterclockwise. If it doesn't, it is past its shelf life.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
For Mel and Philip
http://www.marvelmysteryoil.com/index.php/site/about/
Mel,
"Infinitely better than WD40 which leaves a bad residue and gums things up after a while.".
At the end of a honing session, wipe off the stones (you will see when the black residue from the metal is gone) with mineral spirits - maybe less gumming that way.
Best wishes,
Metod
Metod,
I always wipe my stones off after using them.
When I said that WD40 gums things up, I was referring to something I wrote about previously. My wife has a very nice Bernina sewing machine. She bought it from a store which had been around since the year 2, and was well known. Them owner told her to use WD40 to lubricate the machine. She did so religiously. After a few years, the machine was all gummy and wouldn't work. She took it back. The owner had retired and his son had taken over. His son knew about his father recommending WD40 as a lubricant, and told my wife that was the cause of the problems. It is notorious for leaving a gummy residue with builds up SLOWLY with time.He said that he would "dip" the entire machine and give it a thorough cleaning, the only way to undo the damage by WD40. He did, and it has worked fine since. I have heard this from others since then. The Bernina cost over $1000 a while back, and my wife may love it better than me, so she takes good care of her toy.My recommendation to you is that you dump the WD 40 and switch to Marvel Mystery Oil. Ray Pine has used it for decades. I have used it for weeks, based on Ray's recommendation, and on my test. However, if you like WD40, and you don't notice it gumming up your stone, what the heck? Whatever works for you!I believe it is good to stick with what works, but I also believe it is good to have an open mind to new facts (not BS). There is no doubt about the problems of WD40. I have stopped using it completely, however I do know the beneficial effects in the immediate term. It is only the long term that is a problem.Thanks for writing. I paid a lot of money for my translucent Hard Arkansas stone, and I take good care of it. I tried WD40 on it, once, just as a test. It enables the stone to cut much better than mineral oil (Norton honing oil) because it is thinner. Marvel Mystery Oil allows the stone to cut just as well. Give it a try. What the heck. Life is short, and one needs adventures, and one needs to test one's old habits, lest one's brain become calcified. Enjoy.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Hi Mel,
Thanks for a thorough reply. Philip mentioned, a few weeks ago, using kerosene on water stones. Few days ago I was 'rearranging' a shelf and came across an old can of kerosene. Then I remembered Philip's comment. I had some 'idle' water stones (1200, 3000, 6000) and gave them a try. The euphoria from the smell of kerosene was not... so I switched to WD-40 (I understand that some are using it on their oil stones). So far, I like the results. After some more experimenting, I would not be surprised to switch my 'regular' water stones too.
I just visited the MMO web page - they list several products. The one at the bottom is a pray can, and the one at the top is 'engine' oil, and other types in he middle.
Which one do you recommend - as I will definitely give one a try. I am still too young to be set in my ways...- or I would not try kerosene...
Thanks again, and best wishes,
Metod
Metod,
I am very interested in your experimentation with water stones and kerosene. Let me know more as you keep testing.
The Marvel Mystery Oil that Ray Pine recommended to me, and that I found to work very well is not in a spray can. It is in a red plastic bottle. I visited the MMO website. It is the top product. It says "Marvel Mystery Oil: Ultimate Engine Protection . Add to gas and oil." I went to the old local hardware store, and talked to an old guy, and he showed me right where the stuff was.
Hope you try it. Let me know what you think.
Have fun.
Mel Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
Many thanks for the pointer to the right 'can'. <g>
I will report my impressions, as I experiment more.
Best wishes,
Metod
Edit: Kerosene is to smelly for my small basement workshop - compared to WD-40. Both gave me comparable (like-able) results.
Edited 9/30/2008 12:53 pm ET by Metod
Metod,
Kerosene is also too smelly for my small basement workshop. The MMO smells much better.
Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
My already big nose just grew a tad bigger in the anticipation of the MMO aroma.
Take care,
Metod
Phillip,
I have MMO and I have and know Bay Rum. Sir, I can tell you, MMO is not a Bay Rum!
Seriously, I started using MMO for sharpening and I've used Bay Rum for years. The MMO actually seems to give my oilstones more bite, which I attribute to either the detergent qualities or the extra-strong cow urine. I've been addicted to Bay Rum ever since getting my first hair cut some 55 years ago. I found a good source for it a few years ago and I have regained that first hair cut smell and attitude!
T.Z.
At last-I was wandering when someone was going to see the small joke.Philip Marcou
philip,
I would never waste a product containing any kind of rum, by pouring it on a whetstone.
MMO IMO, might contain just a whiff of oil of wintergreen. Or maybe that distinctive aroma comes from oil of snake. Reading the label makes it sound like a cure for all that ails your car or truck. It recommends itself as an additive to gasoline, diesel fuel and motor oil. It prevents galling and scoring, keeps valves from sticking and rings from wearing. (Maybe that's why I don't need to flatten my oilstone...) My dad swore it was, "a great top-cylinder lubricant". He was a mechanic of the old school. I like it because it smells better than kerosene, and because I have, like, a gallon of the stuff that the old man left behind.
Do you mix that bay rum with lime or coke?
Cheers,
Ray
WD-40 not good because interferes with finish.
I work at a cabinet shop where about every 10 minutes or so they spray WD-40 on the planer bed to help the wood slide through. After the wood is sanded, we have not ever had a problem with the WD hampering the finish.
Take that for what it's worth.
Lee
"... I found the use of earth friendly oil intriguing. "
I don't! I find it:
1) At the gas station
2) Naturally below ground, mostly in Alaska!
>cabinet shop where about every 10 minutes or so they spray WD-40 on the planer bed to help the wood slide through. After the wood is sanded, we have not ever had a problem with the WD hampering the finish.
Thanks Lee
Wineman did you hear that?
It may be how Lee holds his tung while running the planer or your problem may be caused by an infestation of pixies or yard knomes. I recommend calling in a professional if you think there is any danger the latter could be the case.
And for goodness sake, what ever happens, be sure to recalibrate the cannuter valve regulator before using WD-40 on any tool manufactured after 1919.
I hope this helps, I'm pulling for you, we are all in this together.
roc
Edited 9/29/2008 10:44 pm by roc
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