Can I locate my air compressor remotely?
Sorry if this has been answered (I couldn’t find anything in the archives). I’d like to move my Porter Cable pancake air compressor to my detached garage due to the noise from the compressor when in the house, and I would like to have compressed air available in the garage when needed.
I would also like to run a permanent line to the basement (probably underground) — about 20 feet from the garage to the basement — and then plumb the basement for compressed air where needed. In all, this would mean the end of the pipes might be about 40 feet from the compressor at its farthest point. At that point, I would attach a flexible hose. Since I live in Michigan, the freeze and thaw cycle is something to consider for a buried pipe. I’m assuming I wouldn’t need to go below the frost line for the pipe (what diameter would be best?) since the amount of water in the line should be minimal, but it could also be wrapped with insulation, I suppose.
Any suggestions would be helpful. I’d like to keep this simple and not turn it into a major engineering project.
Thank you.
Replies
Sure--you may have a little pressure loss, but you can use quite long runs of hose without making the compressor unusable. Better to use long air hose than long electrical extension cords.
Water can be a problem, and the colder the area that the air must pass the more condensation is possible. But, I don't have experience with permanent buried air piping, I've just run 100 ft. of air hose from garage to house when I needed to. (A hose reel--like the ones sold for water hoses--is an major help.)
Personally I would go below the frost line for a buried air line. The moisture in the compressed air is going to condense pretty quickly when it hits cold steel and you sure don't want it to slowly freeze shut and you will also want to pitch the line down from the compressor and have a condensate trap and bleed of line where it enters the basement. A 1/2 inch line should do, but 3/4 would be better in that it will give you more of a cushion and reserve. Galvanized pipe under-ground black pipe for the rest.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 7/4/2007 10:58 pm ET by BruceS
Line loss decreases dramatically with increased diameter of pipe, so I would use at least 3/4" inside the garage and and probably 1" pipe from garage to basement.
Underground pipe, winter or summer will be cold enough to condense water vapor out. Make sure that the garage/basement leg of the run is straight and sloped about 1" per 6 feet so condensate can run out and be caught in a trap with a little ball valve at the bottom for drainage.
I don't like the idea of burying black iron or galvanized air lines for fear of it rusting and introducing flecks of rust into your air tools. Schedule 40 PVC is rated for 450 lb at 1" diameter, so it might be ideal for the underground portion.
annarborguy,
Well several issue will occur..
the first is the issue of water . Compressing air heats it up, when it cools water forms.
second the durability of most flexible hoses is very suspect when buried.. a few years might be possible, or might not.. depending on what the hose is actually made of..
thrid depending on where you live you may need to go as much as 50 inches (here in Minneapolis) to get below frost which would cause the ground to heave and might tear your air line..
I think it would be cheaper to bury schd. 40 PVC (water pipe) I know all of the issues about pvc blowing up and sending shrapenal under pressure. But that won't be possible it's underground!
use PVC to pipe adapters as you exit the ground and head into your basement, use black iron pipe from there on and you'll be fine.
carefully glue up the PVC pipe and connect the compressor to check for leaks (I'd wait a day at least) use liquid soap to ensure there are no leaks. and once you are satisfied only then go ahead and bury it..
The larger the diameter of pipe you use the less pressure drop (plus the bigger effective air tank you'll have)
Thanks to all of you for your suggestions! These give me a lot to think about in terms of cost and simplicity. I hadn't even thought of just running a flexibile hose from the garage to a fixed point along the exterior basement wall (I guess I always start out with the idea of something permanent and elegant). That would eliminate the winter moisture problem, since I could then disconnect and hang the hose up when done and let it drip dry inside. I have the article from FineWoodWorking.com about how to plumb a shop for air and will use that as a guide for doing the interior.
If I ran those lines I do believe that I would upgrade from the little PC pancake unit you have now.
Boss Chunk.
the cost of an upgrade can be delayed until funds are available. I started out with a small portable sears compressor I now have a large tank unit and all I needed to do was disconnect the old and move the new into place..
I put my pancake compressor in the attic above the garage and ran flexible hose into the basement. Works fine. No noise. To reduce the noise heard in the house I suspended the compressor from the rafters with rope. Works great. Can only hear it if you are right below it in the garage.
Paul
Have compressed air runing all over. Compressor is in the shop and feeds the house, two garages and more. Two choices. You can use black polyethylene water pipe that comes in various pressure ratings, 125 psi, 160 psi, etc. Technically, it is not rated for pressurized air but doesn't shatter like PVC will, nor do you have to glue it together and worry about leaks. I used 1" 180 psi pipe 14 yerars ago with the longest run at 300'. No problems. Today, I would use PEX as it is rated for gasses. PEX also comes with different pressure ratings. Don't worry about size. Smooth interiors walls promote laminar flow so flow ratings for 1/2" PEX = 3/4" PVC. I transitioned to copper but today would run PEX throughout the buildings.
What about this: Why don't you run plastic conduit underground (depth at your discretion) and then run a flexible air hose inside that? The plastic conduit is cheap, and you could replace the air hose without having to dig anything up if it deteriorates or freezes up. I haven't tried this, but instead of experimenting with something that might work - and would be a major pain to dig up if it didn't - you'd always have that raceway in place to run another hose through.
See you at the Red Hawk...
Zolton
Thanks, Zolton. I really like this idea! Possibly combine it with the suggestion to use Pex lines inside the basement, and perhaps inside the "conduit" from the garage to the basement. A thought occurred to me that perhaps foam pipe insulation could be shoved inside a PVC conduit and the air line could then be threaded in the middle. My thinking is that would protect it from the cold and ensure it doesn't flex and shift, thereby lessening the possibility of all water not draining out. I assume you're the one and only Zolton of the home improvement columns in the AA News, Gazette, etc. I read them every week whether or not the problem being discussed is likely to be something I will ever run into. They've been very helpful to me.
Hey, so you're the one who reads my columns! Thanks. I appreciate it.. I can't believe I've been doing it for so long. I just sent the 972nd one off this morning.
As to the air compressor line, I don't know if adding pipe insulation would help protect it from the cold. If there is heat in the air hose line (and there very well may be, a small amount, when the compressor is running and you're using the air line), then the insulation will help hold it in there. But if the line sits overnight it likely will get as cold as the earth that surrounds it, insulated or not. Plus, adding insulation would make it pretty difficult to snake another line through the pipe should that become necessary.
I'd be inclined to not worry too much about it. If you can pitch the line back toward the compressor and have a trap situation set up there that would enable you to bleed the moisture out periodically, that seems like it would be sufficient. Don't forget that snow cover does add quite a bit of insulation to the earth. Lately, and I don't know if this has to do with global warming or not, but the frost depth around here hasn't gone down too far.
Let us know how you come out on this.. Zolton
The pipe they fun for outside boilers are about four inch diameter filled with insulation and then an inside one inch diameter. It would be easy to pull a half or three quarter inch hose through. Like you I'm not sure the advantage would be worth the trouble.
I'm following this thread, as I'm in a similar situation. In my case, when I ran the power conduit from the house to the garage, I also put in a 3" conduit for "other stuff", such as an air line, phone, etc. This is almost 4' deep, so should be below frost line.
Until I actually hooked up the panel, that conduit was used for the extension cord I used for primary power.
I'm pretty sure I'll go with the PEX option. Maybe put a water trap on both ends.
Don
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