Replies

1. 
   Ed_Pirnik | Mar 30, 2011 11:57am | #1

   staining pine

   keep in mind that stain is tricky. It's really easy to end up with a super-blotchy finish. One way around this is to use de-waxed shellac - thinned 50/50 with denautred alcohol to give a light sealer coat on the wood, then apply your stain. It'll give you a much more even finish. Just try it on a test piece before-hand - always a good idea when trying out a new finishing technique.

   Then again - why not leave it natural and just apply past wax for a simple look? Or some sort of oil/wax combo (omitting stain).

   Best,

   Ed

2. 
   shopchallenged | Mar 30, 2011 01:06pm | #2

   Thanks, I was hopeing I could.  I always make sure when working with any wood that is blotchy to seal the living daylights out of it first.    I learned the hard way on a jewelry box I spent a long time on.    Had to sand the sucker down and start over, no easy task.  Won't ever make that mistake again.   Is a jell stain easier to work with?   I half remember refinishing a maple bed for one of kids with it and it didn't come out all that great.    I really want the color as consistent as possible.

   Ed: The wood in my bedroom is cherry, I wanted to get as close to that as possible.    

3. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 30, 2011 01:11pm | #3

   The potential problem with attempting to seal in the odor is that the slightest area you miss will allow the full odor to get into the case. 

   Some choices.  Use a waterborne dye stain.  Coat with shellac to prevent clothing from picking up any color.

                            Brush on a coat of dewaxed shellac.  The dewaxed shellac is much more impervious than a shellac containing its wax.  After brushing on the first coat--to get into the inside corners and 90 degree mating surfaces, spray on a coat of Zinsser Spray Can shellac.  Spray can shellac is totally dewaxed.  Do not sand the shellac coats.

                            

1. 
   shopchallenged | Mar 31, 2011 04:38pm | #4

   I've tried working with dye stains before, maybe I did it wrong.  I used shellac first, then stained.   The only problem, when I hit it with another coat of shellac the stain wiped away.  Of course I was trying to do a wood match on that project, so maybe the process is different??

   Why would you not sand the final coat, won't that leave the surface with a rough feel to it?

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Mar 31, 2011 05:56pm | #5

   Sounds like you used a stain that was dissolvable in alcohol.  Aniline dyes are soluable in water, alcohol and some other chemicals.  Best to use a dye that is only dissolvable in water.  Then you can over coat with shellac and then you can apply any finish on top of the shellac.

   When using shellac as a barrier coat as you are to seal in the odor, any sanding is liable to sand through the shellac.  Shellac is a very, very thin film.  Once you sand through, you will have negated what you set out to do.

   If you want a smooth finish, apply a couple of coats of a waterborne acrylic clear finish.  Once it's dry you can lightly sand that with 320 paper for a smoother finish.

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Mar 31, 2011 07:16pm | #6

   Dye has no binder and unless it penetrates into the cells of the wood the dye won't stay.  Even water based dye, if put over a sealed surface would just be wiped off that surfaces when anything is wiped over it, even a dry towel.  Using shellac under dye can certainly be done, but the shellac undercoat must be a very light cut so it doesn't seal the dye from the wood. 

1. 
   shopchallenged | Apr 08, 2011 06:56pm | #7

   Ok, back to the drawing board. I found the color I want to use, but it is a water-base stain. They told me at Rockler to just lightly seal the wood, then stain it, then seal it. He suggested a water-base finish. Never used either before, so I guess I'll be spending some time learning how to use that. Any advise would be welcome.

   As to the dye I used before, it was a "trans tint" dye. I had played with it on a few pieces of scrap and thought I had the process down. Like I said, I was trying to do a color match with an existing wood. That was a restoration piece and the wood had a nice natural patina on it. The wood I had to do the repair with didn't even come close in color.

2. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 08, 2011 11:49pm | #8

   Waterbased stain is typically quite challenging to use since it dries so quickly.  These are basically a light water borne acyrlic finish with pigment and/or dye included.  The binder makes them dry quickly, and makes them challenging to manipulate.  But it doesn't come with an odor problem.

   A powdered water soluble dye is easiest to use, in my opinion.  There is a major difference compared to TransTint.  The TransTint is soluble in alcohol, water, and lacquer thinner and remains so no matter what solvent was used initially.  Thus a great many top coats can lift it.  For the inside of a chest, I would use a very light concentration of powdered watersoluble dye.  You don't want it at all dark since that makes it harder to find things in the chest.  Most chests traditionally aren't finished, or if they are just a coat or two of shellac to help hold down dust. (Certainly, no Shaker furniture maker would waste materials coloring the inside.  With a light shade you probably don't need to pre-seal with a wash coat of shellac--blotching would be quite a bit less than with a stain in a binder.  If you do want a shellac wash coat for an even more even dye job, I'd suggest no more than roughly 3/4 lb. cut, which is what you get if you mix equal parts of 2 lb. cut (like seal coat) with an equal amount of DNA. 

   Be sure to do a good sized test panel of the complete finishing schedule to see how things work. 

3. 
   Westchester | Apr 09, 2011 12:35pm | #9

   Finish Inside

   I would not finish the inside of a blanket chest - rather line it with thin pieces of cedar -

   SA

4. 
   shopchallenged | Apr 14, 2011 08:23pm | #10

   I was going to line the bottom only with cedar.   I've seem chest totally lined and the cedar sort takes over and distracts for the over all look of the piece.

   As to not finishing the inside, are you saying not even a sealer?    I thought wood that isn't sealed on all sides tend to warp??

   On the water base finish.   I thought water base was supposed to be easier to use than a penetrating stain.   I couldn't find the color I want in either the penetrating or the jell stain.   I thought the jell stain was a PITA personally.    I refinished a dresser with it and being a large dresser the stain dried faster than I could keep up with.    I though being water it would dry slower.   I may end up buying some oil paint the color I want and mix my own stain.

   PS   I have not been ignoring the responses I've been getting, on the contrary I welcome any help I can get.  I'm supposed to get an e-mail notification when a response is made but I have yet to get a single one for any of the responses.

5. 
   Westchester | Apr 15, 2011 08:10am | #11

   Cedar

   How much cedar you use is a personal choice.  You are not distracting from the visual since the cedar is inside the case.

   You do not have to seal the unfinished wood. Warping is more of an issue with glued up boards that make up a flat top not case work.

   In your profile I believe there is a setting to alert you by e-mail for responses

   SA

6. 
   GretchenTHE FIRST | Apr 15, 2011 08:51am | #12

   Cedar is fine if you want it, but everything you put in it will have to be aired out when you take it out. Most of us have very little need for cedar any more--although IF you are storing woolens it would be a great lining. And it doesn't detract at all--inside, and utilitarian.

   I would not use any stain on the inside. Howard has given the warning--it could be a long lasting odor. YOu could use a pigmanted shellac perhaps for a bit of color. It will eventually oxidize to a somewhat darker color on its own. Many old chests are left unfinished on the inside.

7. 
   RalphBarker | Apr 15, 2011 12:04pm | #13

   I always enjoyed visiting my grandmother (she married my grandfather in 1907, if that gives you a clue). She (her clothes, actually) always smelled like fresh-cut cedar.  ;-)

4. 
   shopchallenged | Apr 19, 2011 03:25pm | #14

   Thanks for the tip, I was just checking the box at the bottom of this page; just above "POST"

   Does sanding sealer have a shelf life like shellac does?   When I opened the can it has an oily oder???  

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Apr 19, 2011 09:09pm | #15

   Probably, but since I'm not finishing commercial cabinetry that doesn't have to last very long I've never had any reason to use sanding sealer.  It's a product that has no uses for amateur furniture makers, it just makes the finish less water resistant, and more prone to damage.  I'd avoid it entirely. 

   Yes, there are some specialized finishes, mostly 2-part finishes designed for industrial use that do call out a specific sealer, but that's not the case with single part finishes available to the DIY market. 

1. 
   shopchallenged | Apr 20, 2011 06:59pm | #16

   Thanks Steve

   I think I'm going to cut some shellac and use that.  Since the wood is Pine, I want a consistent finish when I stain the outside of it.  I'll probably shellac the inside, then lightly sand it so it has that silky smooth feel to it.

   If I'm not going to stain the inside, where do I stop staining?  Is the lip of the chest stained or is that considered part of the inside since it's under the lid??   Is any part of the inside of the lid stained?