I’m new to the hobby, and just starting to acquire tools. Thinking about the multiple-base DeWalt 618B3 2 1/4 HP. Good choice, bad choice, opinions?
Thanks,
jim
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Replies
Jim, just my opinion, but I've had Porter-Cable and Hitachi, and then Bosch. I can't see ever owning anything besides a Bosch. Check them out.
Jim, Porter-Cable just released their new router to replace the ubiquitous 690 series -- it's the 890 series. 'T'were I buying a router today, I wouldn't make a decision until I checked it out. They have addressed issues that frustrated users of the 690's, added a model with a router-table height adjuster features, and so many of the after-market attachements for routers are aimed at the PC routers.
Here's a link to their router page, where the 4 890x routers or sets are listed:
http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=2810
If I hadn't just last spring bought a 690 and the plunge equivalent, I'd love to have these routers.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Thanks to both of you. I have not looked at Bosch, but will. I had saved the PC 895PK in my Amazon Wish List as a possibility, and the DW looked similar, if more pricey. I've got other PC products that I've loved, so I'll take another look. I'm sure it's like buying a computer -- the minute you decide on something and buy, something better comes out the next day. :-)
Does the motor for the 890 fit into the 690 bases? I was thinking about getting the "d" handle to compliment my other two bases and at the same time add variable speed at the motor.
What do you think?
Jeff, I don't really know. Today's super-busy, but tonight I'll track down the tool review I read on the routers a couple weeks ago and see if it says anything.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
According to PC, the 890 motor will fit the 690 bases. http://www.porter-cable.com/index.asp?e=547&p=4856
Wondered if anyone still uses the PC Model 100 anymore. I've been looking at the 100H (all metal).
Yes the 890 Motor fits all 690 compatible bases, or at least that's what the rep told me at the last woodworking show I was at.
From my understanding, PC takes great pride in just about all their new routers being able to fit in the 690 base. So yeah, I'm pretty sure that I've read the 890 fits the 690.
I haven't bought one in 20 years, so I'm not up on the new ones.
But for only one router, a 3hp plunge router with a half-inch collet will do everything a router can do...and you can get a smaller one later when you tire of lugging it to small jobs.
So, Bob, in your opinion is a 2 1/4 HP too small? Hard to tell where I'm going with this hobby since I'm just getting started and have much crawling to do before I walk. I probably can't afford the top of the line, but I also don't want to underestimate the HP demand either.
Jim
surf this forum for a while and you'll find many people with a lot more than one router. Some considerations:
Once you build a router table, you'll find that not long after you'll want a second router because of the hastle of taking your only router on and off the table.
ditto if you buy a Leigh, or similar, jig – it's pretty common for users to graduate to 2 routers, one for the dovetail bit, the other for the straight bit.
If you buy a big 3 hp unit so you can easilly spin big bits I garantee that down the track you'll find it too heavy for some tasks and you'll buy a second, lighter unit.
So for now, what job do you need the router for? unless you know you'll be spinning big bits (as in diameter) right from the get go, my suggestion is to get a good to excellent mid-power unit – with plunge and variable speed. As your skill and the type of project you undertake expands you will also find that you will be expanding your tool collection – that will be the time to also expand your router collection
That sounds OK to me...but if you keep it up you'll buy a lighter router anyway...so the biggest one to begin with is merely my approach.
Half-inch shank bits ain't a shaper, but you can do some surprising stuff with them.
I figure that down the track you'll end up with at least 2 if not 3. Starting near the middle of the weight–power spectrum I think will give you a better indication of do you really need that little laminate trimmer. At the point where you get arround to building your router table, I think you should also seriously consider getting a dedicated router for it.
Agree that while 1/2in shanks aint a shaper, a router at low speed comes pretty close for low volume work
Bosch!
John
For a hobby woodworker going for just one router now, I'd aim for a middle range tool-- something claimed to be 2- 2-1/4 HP, or about 1400 Watts in real money.
This size of tool can be got to do most things reasonably. It won't have the power to take on a long run of heavy duty moulding very satisfactorily, nor will it be small and delicate enough for light work, but it can be made to work at both, plus a lot of the middle of the range stuff will fall into its realm easily. The machine will be a little heavy, but not too heavy, and the opposite, a little light, but workable for bigger stuff.
Certainly a tool that can take half inch shank bits as well as quarter inch shanks will be high on your list of priorities, and the offerings from Bosch, DeWalt, Porter Cable, Makita, etc., all work well in their different ways.
The choice for woodworkers often comes down to personal preference and familiarity with a tools 'style.' For years I was an Elu router user, then I moved DeWalt, which was a cheapened Elu with a black and yellow wasp coat on, and now I find I'm switching to the Bosch range just because I seem to like the way they work better, and their quality control hasn't been allowed to fall away as the DeWalt range seems to have done over the last ten years or so--- I was never diasappointed with the Elu products, but since Crap and Pecker took them over and turned them into the long devalued DeWalt I've found their quality of engineering has fallen too much for my liking.
Of the combined fixed base/ plunge base routers available, none seem to really shine at either function from what I've heard, but they all seem to be passably useful. As before, stick with the big names in router tools, like Porter Cable, DeWalt, Bosch, Makita, Milwaukee, and you won't go very far wrong.
Buy something cheap from one of the toy makers, such as Craftsman, Ryobi and the like, and you'll probably regret it in the end. When you get into this 'hobby' a bit more--- I refuse to lift woodworking tools at night and weekends--- don't be surprised if you own five or six routers, each set up and used for different jobs. Slainte.
Hi Jim, I have that combo set and have been really happy with it. You won't go wrong there.
Milwaukee has a dynamite line as well. ( I own two...I'm a bit of a router junkie).
Good luck!!
Brian
Used evey body's I think at one time or another. You have to get your hands on a 1600 series Bosch. All sizes and shapes to fit most any budget. You'll never look back.
Who ever invented work didn't know how to fish....
FWIW, I bought the Bosch (2hp?) router that came as a package, a single motor but with a plunge base and a fixed base for mounting to a table. I find I use the plunge base more than the fixed but both are handy and the price for the package was less than buying two separate routers. I like the Bosch, haven't had any problems, but I have given it only light usage.
DW-621.
Jim
Agree with those that state 2 HP for the first. I have 4 routers. You will need a plunge capability eventually, so I would go with either a combo kit that gives you a plunge and fixed base. I prefer a dedicated plunge, but this would cover both bases.
The DW 621 is not a great table mount IMO. I have it as the dedicated plunge where it does excel. I have a Bosch 1617 EVS as my dedicated fixed base and a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP fixed base with built on height adjuster for the dedicated table.
If I were starting from scratch, I would go Bosch combo and then add a larger fixed base to the table latter. When you do go with the larger in the table latter, you already have the plunge issue covered.
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Here's a recent review of the combo kits that was in Tools of the Trade Magazine by Gary Katz. His angle is as a finish carpenter, but I have found over the years his advice is pretty good. There's enough information there to at least help with your decision.
My 2 cents? I've got a couple hundred hours with the PC 690s. They used to be the industry standard, but I think they've been out done nowadays. I haven't checked out their new ones. I've also used the makitas. I find them to be a little tall for good balance. I like the Bosch the best, although that Dewalt combo seems nice.
Good Luck. Here's the link:
http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=1876&position=2&type=article&partID=1
Edited 11/23/2003 1:36:18 PM ET by VANDERPOOCH
Thanks everyone for all the great advice. I've made a final decision three times now, and then I find something else to make me ponder it some more. I will continue to research. I definitely want a combo, just don't know which brand. Sounds like there are several good makes and models out there, and I'm sure whichever one I finally pick will, at the least, be better than what I have now, which is nothing!
Jim,
I have three routers, a 3 1/4 hp PC table mounted, a 1 1/2 hp Bosch fixed base, and a 2 hp Bosch plunge and if I had to choose only one I would go with the 2 hp plunge. It is very versitile as a starter router as Saign and Sarge have said, and it can do everything my fixed base does. It won't handle the table but in the beginning that's probably not what your looking for anyway. I would stay away from the big hp hand routers as they are clumsy and hard to handle for most work. Bosch would be my first choice, PC my second. Good dust collection is a must.
TDF
Edited 11/23/2003 9:45:56 PM ET by Tom Ferreira
Jim, I've had my Bosch 1613EVS for 10+ years and I wouldn't part with it at any price. It's a good and solid mid-range 2-1/4HP plunge router. When properly locked down, mine has never slipped. I use it in both plunge and fixed modes, and I see little need for a separate fixed base.
I use it both hand-held and in a table. The micro-adjust really shines here, though it is not adjustable from the top of the table.
Whatever brand you get, be sure it has electronic speed control. This useful feature lets you use larger bits at reduced speed, but with no loss of power.
Down the road, you may want more power or finer control. That's the time to look at the BIG 3HP monsters, or the laminate trimmers.
--
Lee in Cave Junction, Oregon;
Gateway to the Oregon Caves
Lee --
I've settled on the Bosch 1617EVSPK. Based on the comments in this thread and reviews I've seen, it seems like the best bet.
Now to drop some subtle Christmas-present hints with my wife...
:-)
Jim
Good choice. I have the 1611, in a table, a 1604, and a 1617. You will like the quality of the Bosch. Just a tip. When you get it, you may have to lap the metal base plate, under the plastic sub-base. That should take about one minute.
Alan
Alan --
What do you mean by "lap"?
Jim
As in "lapping" the back of a chisel or plane iron. Take some abrasive paper, 220 perhaps, and afix it to a VERY flat surface, such a the top of a cast iron tool (TS, jointer, etc) and rub the metal router base on it to fully flatten it. On my 1617, I found that there was a bit of roughness, which threw the plastic sub-base out of flat. It rocked a bit. This is a quick and easy fix. Yours may not need it.
Alan
Thanks for the tip, Alan. I'll lap that puppy till it barks. :-)
just a drop, till its flat. Don't make it bark.
Alan
Jim,
I have the DeWalt 621. When it was announced its key to fame was the dust collection...which also meant you could see what your doing when using the tool. It's worked very well. Currently, I have it stuck in a router table I built this summer. It's doing well there but I miss it for the hand held operations. I want to get a 3 1/4 hp for the router table ...so I can do raised panels ....and have my 621 for hand work. Recently I attended a demo where they did raised panels over at Woodcraft....I'm beginning to re-think that...it looked very scary...
Anyhow, I would not buy a dual base router. A plunge router for hand work is a must ..and less than 3 hp is more than adequate. Switching the plunge to the fixed base in the router table sounds good but in fact is of marginal value. I think you need a real solid base for the router in the table....and just having the base of the router screwed into a plate is not enough...except for those operations that you could do just as well in the handheld mode. When your ready for the router table you buy another router and set it up correctly....the fixed base will be wasted.
I second the opinion that a combo kit is the way to go. I was in your place a while ago and am very glad that I have a plunge router, couldn't imaging not having one.
I am looking for a router also, and for the money, this one for $160 at Amazon looks good: Hitachi M12V 3-1/4 HP Electronic Variable Speed 1/2" Plunge Router. Anyone have any comments on this choice?
Hi Mark, I would listen to Alan's advice if I were you and just starting out. 2 1/4 HP is plenty of power for handheld small shop operations.
I do own a 3 1/4HP Milwaukee but it is a dedicated table router.
It's easy to get carried away a bit when it comes to routers. At least that is my experience. I'm on my fifth router but I am an admitted routeraholic. A stone cold junkie.
Have fun, Brian
Mark
The Hitachi MV12 is a hoss. I had one table mounted and it is excellent for a table mount for the money. Great price. I gave it to my BIL and replaced with a Milwaukee 3 1/2 HP. The Hitachi requires a bent wrench available through CMT to change bits under the table without frustration. The plunge is a little sticky, but very adequate.
You will see them at a lot of WW Shows used as demonstrators for several companies with dovetail and mortice jigs. With all that said, I would buy it for a table mount only if I were strapped for funds. It is rather heavy and powerful for hand-held operations. I think a 2 + would be better suited for that.
Good router, great price but there are a few better for both table and hand-held operations.
sarge..jtProud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Here are some things to consider:
Weight: It's easier to handle a lighter object, particularly as you are learning.
Power: More is better, but comes with increased weight, price, and temptation to do something risky. 2 1/4 horse is plenty for hand control, though many prefer a bigger router in a table.
Variable speed: This makes it easier to match the cut to the material without burning.
Soft start: I think this is an important safety feature for a beginner, as well as a convenience for anyone. Some routers give a sizeable jolt as they start up, which could take a bite out of the workpiece (or worse).
Plunge: This is a very nice feature for routing mortises, and related tasks. Otherwise, a standard base is lighter and will frequently height adjust with more precision.
Router table use: You will likely want to use your router in a table at some point. Unless (until?) you get a dedicated router for that purpose, a second base is very useful. It's cheaper to get it at the same time as the router.
Handling: Feel the weight and balance to judge for yourself. Some people find a D-handle base is much better than a standard handle, providing a more solid grip, and control of the on-off switch without moving your hands, while others complain that the D-handle limits the types of grips you can get on the router, and does not fit into a table.
Collet: A self releasing collet makes it easier to remove the bit, and locking of the shaft allows a single wrench to be used.
Templates: A minor point compared to the others is that most templates are designed to fit the PC base. Adapters for PC templates, and other styles of template are available.
I got the Bosch 2 1/4 HP variable speed with plunge and standard base, and have been very happy with it. It requires two wrenches to change the bit, but comes out well on the other features I mentioned. Luckily, I think there are a lot of good routers out there.
Clifton MultiPlane
Lar has spoken. Did he write a treatise on this I'm supposed to know about, or do we just take his word (two words, to be precise) about it.forestgirl Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
BOSCH PLUNGE ROUTER 1613!!!
That's the ticket!!
Then make yourself a solid router table as your first project! At least 60" x 30" - it can't be too big. Clad it with melamine or plastic laminate and put a coat of floor wax on it. Put a small shelf in it for your bits. Buy the bits as you need them and get the best you can afford. I use Whitehead carbide bits - no high speed steel crap. Use a clear insert for the router. Make a tall fence so you can edge joint pieces. Buy some router 'how to' books and get a foot peddle switch.
That's what I'm talking about!!
I would look into a small fixed base Porter Cable router about a horse and a half. PC comes with different bases, go you can plunge with that same one.
My thought is that a middle of the road half inch shank router would be a nice entry level router.
I have six:
PC three quarter hp for door mortises
PC horse and half for intermediate work
PC three and a half for the router table
Elu horse and a half plunge for inlay work
Sears one horse that takes up shelf space
PC Laminate Trimmer.
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Is the 3/4 horse the Model 310? What do you think of it? Been debating to myself about the 310 and 100 (7/8hp). thanks
I'm stuck in a friggin office today, so I don't have it, but it is a tiny hand held router that weighs less than five pounds, which is great for door hanging, which is what I use it for.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
With my experience on routers or and other hand tool is no mater how much you think your going to use it, Don't spend your hard earnt money on cheap tools(sears for example) . A hobbyist for years and now a full time furniture builder, own three routers and very happy with all of them and their not the same brand. Ryobi trim, 1.5 hp.Ryobi and a very old 3hp Porta-cable I picked up from my local bargain friend, ($50.00) the others bought new. A friend owed me some money and give a 1.25 hp sears (JUNK) but I ran that until I couldn't stand the screaming from the bushing going. It's your choice and money your spending.But I always think about how long it would last me before ya might have to replace it and if it's a descent price.
My advice is out of date.
The reason it's out of date is I bought one of the first half-inch shank Makita 3hp 3612R over 20 years ago and it's been going strong ever since.
It's my only router. And I've done no shortage of commercial work.
I always wanted a lighter Porter Cable classic for lighter tasks...but I could never justify the expense.
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