I am using Water based polyurethane to finish a table at the moment. I chose this because I working in an appartment and it’s the safest product healthwise.
I don’t like the feel of this product… Can I apply at top coat of Shellac or oil based varnish over it?
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Yes, as long as you let the waterborne varnish fully cure. Allow about 3-4 weeks then lightly scuff sand with 320 and apply your oil based varnish. No need for the shellac if you want a varnish finish.
Thank you. This is for a table I will use for gaming (cards, board games, strategy games and the like)... I would like a really tough finish as my top coats... I was thinking of using the product they use to cover wood floors. Is this a good idea or would I be better off with something else?
BTW thanks for all the advice, you guys (and galls) are great.
A high resin polyurethane is what is generally used for floors. You can use that but you will have to buy a gallon generally. As good is an interior rated standard polyurethane. ZAR makes a good one in my experience.
Still Polyurethane... hummm... I find it feels like plastic... well since it is plastic that would make sense ;)
How about what they use for hand rails? Those don't feel like plastic. Any idea what type of product is used for that? I normally buy the Brand Varathane... not because I find it better but because I have never tried anything else and in the past I always liked the result until I tried the waterbased product.
ALL finishes contain plastic. The resin you see on the label is some type of plastic. Polyurethane is only an additive to standard resin varnish that makes it more scratch and heat resistant. The "feel" has more to do with the film thickness than the product.
That said, if you want a varnish that does not contain the polyurethane additive, use Waterlox or Behlan's Rockhard.
I'm not sure about your point with Varathane. As you said, that is just a brand name. Varathane is responsible for the idea of polyurethane varnish being "Plastic". When they first came out with it, the called it "Liquid Plastic".
I was talking with a friend yesterday night about finishes and I think I found the product that would be best... what they use for bar tops. That thing can get a lot of abuse and still have a nice feel to it. It's hard for me to explain a feeling but what I used on my table legs and support box feels like I was holding a piece made out of plastic... it's cold to the touch, very hard, and have little texture to it. When you touch wood it's normally warmer and you get a sense of solidity that I do not feel with the wood I finished with polyurethane.
As for Varathane, the products I used in the past were all oil based, not water based. They had a completelly different feel to them. But in the end only the top coat makes a difference for feel. So that will be good. Polyurethane offers great protection to the wood, all I have to do is finish the last 3 coats with something I like better. Then I can get the best of both worlds.
I will have a look at the bands you suggested.
Edited 2/29/2004 12:39:44 PM ET by Calendyr
>>I was talking with a friend yesterday night about finishes and I think I found the product that would be best... what they use for bar tops.
I don't know what you are trying to accomplish. But, if you are talking about a pour-on finish that is used on may bars that may be a problem too. For one, it is a two part epoxy and for all intents and purposes, it is truly a liquid plastic. But, it can not be used on solid wood as it prevents the wood from expanding and contracting with seasonal changes. It is used on top of composition materials like plywood generally.
Varathane is available in both waterborne and oil based.
Howie,
I have a good sized maple slab that I was planning on coating (both sides) with a product called "FAMOWOOD". It is a two part epoxy. I'm aware of the fact that the table can't be exposed to direct sunlight but will the stuff crack with seasonal movement? Thanks.
Mack"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
Well, maybe.
In theory, you can complete encase the item in epoxy (sides, edges, everything) and no moisture can get in. If that works, then the slab will not expand/contract. If however, moisture does get in, something will have to give.
Before you try another material, try sanding what you have. Fine sandpaper will take a glossy surface that feels like plastic to a satin surface that feels a bit more like wood. Progressively finer sandpaper will make a glossier surface. If the polyurethane is a problem, it's more likely to be because it's too soft than too hard. (Marine spar varnish stays soft.) Hardened poly should feel like hardened epoxy.
Ok so no topping it then. When I apply the final coat I will most likelly just wax it with furniture wax and leave it like that. If it bothers me too much I will strip it and re-do from scratch.
Thanks for the info, lots of thing I need to learn about finishes, I have only covered the basic so far. But Understanding wood finishes is the next book on my list once I am done with the one I am reading ;)
I do desk tops with 3 coats of Deft and have never had problems. It has a nitrocellulose base and doesn.t show brushmarks. Also it's easy to patch if scratched.
First off it's waterborne not waterbased. This may sound like quibbling, but the cured film is essentially very similar to regular poly varnish. Therefore the tactile qualities have everything to do with the application. For future reference try what I do, spray it if possible and you may want to try Enduro as opposed to the homecenter brands. Now for your current situation. Nothing is as tough as poly and nothing will chemically bond to it once it's cured. The best you can get is mechanical adhesion from scuff sanding. I wouldn't try to top coat it because that will just add more thickness and result in a less durable finish. I'd try to sand it down, either dry or wet until you're left with a thin film. If you go through, come back with as light a coat as you can apply and rub it out after it cures. If you can find a compatible reducer and/or flowout additive use it to extend the working time.
John O'Connell - JKO Handcrafted Woodworking
Life is tough. It's tougher if you're stupid - John Wayne
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