Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Mar 19, 2005 07:18pm | #1

   Biscuit joinery might work.

1. 
   DaleKrech | Mar 19, 2005 08:36pm | #2

   I don't think it would be strong enough, alone. The carcase will be roughly 60 inches wide, 42 tall, and 14 deep. This is the top half of a China Cabinet.

    

   Were you suggesting a combination of dovetalis and bisquits? Hmmm...

    

   Dale

1. 
   jackplane | Mar 19, 2005 10:18pm | #4

   Biscuit joinery is as strong as any joint save for a mortise and tenon and maybe a dovetail. I also have trouble picturing your exact dilemma.

1. 
   DaleKrech | Mar 20, 2005 12:07am | #7

   Wow! Nice job.

   In essence, I'm building the same type of cabinet. As I mentioned in a reply to someone else, I'm building the top half of a china cabinet.

   I follow what you've described, and have done similar in other projects. But, this piece is one of a complete dining room set I'm building for myself.  I've completed the table and chairs, and the bottom half of the China hutch. I bought a cherry tree from PA. and several Claro trees here in CA. This is an "over the top" project for me. All solid wood, all matching. I know utilizing plywood would make certain aspects of my project easier, but I'm on a mission.

   Thanks!

   Dale

2. 
   douglas2cats | Mar 19, 2005 09:09pm | #3

   I'm having a hard time picturing or suggesting anything cuz I'm not clear on:

   My first thought is to use a couple of half blind dovetails only where the side stiles meet the solid top and bottom (end grain to end grain).

   Wouldn't one of these surfaces be either edge or face grain? I'm picturing the stiles either between the top/bottom or the top/bottom between the stiles, but that doesn't make sense with the end-grain to end-grain statement.

   If you build it - he will come.

1. 
   DaleKrech | Mar 19, 2005 11:57pm | #6

   Sides of cabinet are frame and panel, where  panel will be of glass. Rails of this assembly, are M&T between the stiles. Top and bottom will be solid wood. Width of these pieces will be same as sides. If you can visualize above description, the stiles will meet top and bottom pieces at the front and back (end grain to end grain. The side rails (betwwen stiles) will be long edge grain to end grain of top and bottom pieces.

   My uncertainty is where end meets long grain. Can this be dovetailed as well? I have never seen this joint applied to this situation. But, then there's a lot I've never seen.

   One picture is worth a thousand words!

   Thanks!

   Dale

3. 
   jptenberg | Mar 19, 2005 10:40pm | #5

   Rather than make the top out of solid wood, have you considered using furniture-grade veneered plywood?  I have made cabinets of this typl in the past, and have had no trouble with this technique. 

    I have used busciuts, or pocket screws from inconspicious places inside the cabinet, or even used screws from the top(assuming that the cabinet top will not be visible) to attach the top.

   After the top is in place, I then apply moldings around the exposed plywood edges, and nobody is ever the wiser.  I then do not have to wory about cross-grain mocement between the sides and the top.

   I'll attach a pic of a cabinet that I made using this technique

   Good luck

   Peter

   jpswoodworking.com

   
1. 
   jackhall | Mar 21, 2005 11:56pm | #17

   Really nice.  How did you make the top cove molding?

1. 
   jptenberg | Mar 22, 2005 12:57am | #18

   I took 8/4 walnut and cut the cove on my tablesaw at an angle across the blade.  Then I think I took that piece to the router table to bead the top.  It's not really that hard, but it takes a long time, and a fair amount of sanding to get the blade marks out.

   When I installed it, I put a smaller cove molding (made w/ router) below the large one to make it look fancier...Peter

   jpswoodworking.com

1. 
   jackhall | Mar 22, 2005 01:09am | #19

   Thanks.  I have been wanting to try that technique myself.

4. 
   Alphonse | Mar 20, 2005 04:06am | #8

   If you allow expansion/contraction room for the glass sides based on expected movement from the top and bottom (in other words,so wood movement doesn't stress the glass)can't see why what you're proposing wouldn't work.A bit unconventional mebbe.

    You could pin what I am assuming would be a wooden rail at the top/bottom of the sides to the top/bottom in the middle,and allow your dovetailed in stiles to move with the solid.

5. 
   joinerswork | Mar 20, 2005 04:21am | #9

   Dale,

   You could cut a dado (or a sliding dovetail if you are feeling tricky) across the ends, to capture the ends of the case bottom.  Glue two or three inches at the front, and let the rest float.  If you use a frame and panel back, you can allow for expansion of the bottom into a dado in the back also.  Screw the back assembly into rabbets in the case ends.

   Regards,

   Ray

1. 
   DaleKrech | Mar 20, 2005 05:56pm | #11

   Ray,

    

   Thanks for your response.

   I considered the sliding dovetail as you described. But, since the sides will be flush with top and bottom ends, there won't be much wood left to the outside of the slot. I'm definitely planning a frame and panel back, rabbited into back of carcase. I suppose this could add enough strength to offset what I perceive to be weakness in the sliding dovetail.

   What do you think?

   Dale

1. 
   Eric | Mar 20, 2005 10:02pm | #12

   Dale,

   The right answer is plywood.  Any other way and you will have a wood movement problem.  I understand that you insist on it matching the wood.  In that case, re-saw your stock into 3/16" veneer and glue it to plywood or MDF -- that way you get what you want without any scetchy joinery.  I don't think you'll be happy with anything else.

   Please post pictures when it's done. 

   Best of luck.

   Cheers,

   Eric

2. 
   Eric | Mar 20, 2005 10:05pm | #13

   Dale this is a P.S. to my last. 

   You could also make a frame and panel top -- again, that gets you around the wood movement problem, uses your esisting wood, and could be done up to look quite nice.

   Cheers,

   Eric

3. 
   joinerswork | Mar 21, 2005 01:15am | #14

   Dale,

   Have you considered raising the bottom up an inch or so? You can then house the bottom with greater strength.  A narrow front rail across the bottom front will (1) cover the space below the case bottom, (2) fix the distance between the ends, (3) give you a place for a waist mold attachment, (4) let the bottom act as a door stop, if it's held up 1/4" or so behind the front rail, (5) give you something to glue the bottom to, to put all the movement of the bottom to the back, (6) give some visual balance to the front's  top rail, and the bottom rail of the ends.

   Just my .02

   Regards,

   Ray

6. 
   Peter36 | Mar 20, 2005 03:36pm | #10

   Hi Dale. Just think of a table top joining to  the legs and aprons. Use whichever method you like best.         Peter

7. 
   Peter36 | Mar 21, 2005 12:52pm | #15

   Hi Dale. You could just build a frame using the same style and rail techniques. Install this frame at the top of the cabinet so it connects the two sides and the back. Drill some oversized holes in it and screw through these holes into the solid wood top.

8. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 21, 2005 10:34pm | #16

   dovetails!!!

   But I use a router.. I mess up them if I try to hand cut!