Replies

1. 
   tms | Feb 16, 2005 11:52pm | #1

   Hi Zombee,

   Everything sounds right, up to the point where you make 15-20 very firm passes. Even with a good quality steel scraper, you should only need about five moderately firm passes to raise the edge.

   After that, I would suggest that you clamp the card in your bench vise, or find some other way to hold the edge vertical, then 3-5 passes at 5º ought to do it.

   Oh also, I know you can burnish with a screwdriver, or a hardened bolt, or whatever you want to come up with, but IMHO the only correct too for the job is what is made for the job, a good quality, long, hard, polished, round, burnisher. It will make your edge cut, and that's what your trying to get to.

   With the correct tool, you also won't need "liberal' amounts of oil either. Just run it through your hair, and it's good to go.

   The card scraper is the most used tool in my shop. Get it right, and I'll bet it will be in your's too.

   Good luck
   Tom

2. 
   ScottInMadtown | Feb 16, 2005 11:52pm | #2

   Zombeerose,

   Without actually watching you do it.....

   15-20 passes seems a little excessive.  It usually only takes me 3-5 passes.  And I don't think you really have to press THAT hard.  You might be pressing so hard and so many times that you are curling the edge over into a big loop so that no edge is present to cut with.

   Scott

3. 
   Jellyrug | Feb 16, 2005 11:53pm | #3

   Zombee,

   A screwdriver won't do the job, as it's too soft and the finish is not fine enough.

   You need a highly polished burnishing rod, which is harder than the scraper. I guess a carbide router bit will work, provided you can maintain the exact angles during burnishing.

   I get a perfect burr, but start the the bur with the scraper in the vertical position, first stroking square and then adding an angle up to 10 degrees depending on the application. Once this burr is formed, I go to your first burnishing step, by laying the scraper flat and move the burr over to work harden it. Then I go back to vertical and repeat the previous step.

   To make this real easy, Veritas has a little gizmo, where you can set the angle and you just slide their gizmo over the scraper. They also sell a nice burnishing rod.

   Important that the surface of your burnisher is highly polished.

4. 
   mgumaer | Feb 17, 2005 12:48am | #4

   Zombeerose,

   Two comments from someone who has just recently started having some success in the area. 15-20 passes with significant pressure is in all likelihood too much. Start with a few moderately firm passes.
   Also, try scraping with the scraper at a broad range of angles. You may be raising a burr with a hook with a high angle (or low depending on your perspective) requiring the scraper to be fairly close to flat against the board to work correctly. This happened to me and when I initially tried scraping with the scraper near perpendicular to the surface, I had no luck (and assumed I had no burr). This led me to more and harder burnishing which probably did nothing but turn the hook over even further.
   Those were my mistakes, maybe not yours, but may be worth a shot (a lot less burnishing and a lot more playing with the angle of the scraper to the board seems to have worked for me).

   Matt

1. 
   qldwoodie | Feb 17, 2005 01:43am | #5

   As all the other replies have said - too many passes!

   You most certainly can raise a useful burr with a screwdriver, or the back of a narrow chisel, or just about any bit of smooth tool steel, but they're also right in suggesting it's much easier with a piece of hard, polished steel - an old auto valve stem works a treat.  I use an old 8" triangular file with the teeth polished off and the corners rounded - it's served me faithfully for 20 plus years.

   The most common mistake beginners make is to overdo the burr and turn it into a curl or a rounded hump (you can't keep a consistent angle with that many passes).  After 3 or 4 passes you should be able to feel the very sharp edge as you run a finger back over the side.  It can't cut you, unless you really try hard - your outer skin is thicker than the amount the burr is raised.

   Try fewer strokes, and experiment with the angle you hold it, from almost flat up to vertical as previously suggested. if you have made a useable burr, you will feel it 'catch' with even light pressure on most hardwoods.  A good edge cuts at about a 45 deg angle, for me, but this probably varies quite a bit between users.

   BTW, you ARE trying to scrape hardwood, aren't you?  It takes a LOT of skill and practice and a VERY well-sharpened scraper to tackle softwoods - (mostly it's not worth the effort, IMO).

   As the others have said, keep trying - it's like magic when it suddenly works. 

   Cheers,  IW. 

   Edited 2/16/2005 5:44 pm ET by IWILKIE

5. 
   BG | Feb 17, 2005 01:50am | #6

   zom,

   I think you have the process step a bit out of sequence (if I remember correctly).  I hone on wet dry sand paper (don't have diamond) both sides and then put it in the wood block and hone the edge.....draw out the edge with hardened steel....then put scraper back in the wood block....and hit with burnisher...lightly..3- strokes is all you need each way.  Initially, I used a 1/2" router bit but now use the veritas. If you use a router bit or burnishing rod, lay it on top of the scraper and also have it touch the wood ...so its on an angle...that'll give you a good repeatable angle.  When using the tool on wood...let the tool do the work..don't push too hard...  

    

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/16/2005 5:52 pm ET by BG

1. 
   zombeerose | Feb 17, 2005 07:00pm | #7

   Thanks to everyone for their suggestions! It sounds unanimous that I am overdoing it with the # of strokes. Thankfully, I won't take credit for that # (15-20) because it actually came from an article I read. I will reduce the strokes, follow the tips, and find something better to use for burnishing. I have also been trying various angles with the hope that the burr was there but no luck.I've also been told that it is important to bend the scraper to get it to catch. Is this accurate or will it work when flat? How does bending the scraper facilitate the process?MATT: Thanks for the words from a fellow "newbie" in the realm of scrapers.IWILKIE: Absolutely I'm using hardwood! Besides mockups, is there a point for using softwood if you want the piece to last??? I'm going to get it now! :)I'll post my progress soon!Z

1. 
   tms | Feb 17, 2005 07:31pm | #8

   Hi Zombee,If you have a stiff scraper, and the angle of the burr is correct, you shouldn't have to flex it to scrape correctly. The edge should catch and do the work with minimal effort on your part.If your scraper is made of thin, flexible steel, or if you have over rounded the burr, then you may have to flex the blade with your thumbs. In the case of a flexible blade, this will stiffen it, and reduce the tendency to chatter. In the case of a over rounded burr, it will tend to open the hook a bit and make the edge catch without a excessive angle of pitch.My personal preference is for a deep (tall), stiff scraper. It ensures that I can get a good shaving at all times without chatter along the entire edge. You will find that with a flexible scraper, you end up using only the center of the blade, and repeatedly filing off the ends, unused.The most common mistake of beginners is to over round the burr. Anything more than 5º usually means that the scraper needs flexing, or an uncomfortable angle of pitch in order to cut. Try turning the least hook that you can get consistantly along the blade, and then scrape with it. If you need more, you can always add it later.Tom

2. 
   Lilshaver | Feb 17, 2005 08:23pm | #9

   There is also the issue of which brand of scraper you are using. I've found that some simply won't take an edge/give up a burr. Sorry butt I can't recall the name of any I'm currently using that I consider good ones. I do know I have a Disston from years ago that is problamatic.......it's too stiff and won't hold the burr well.

1. 
   tms | Feb 17, 2005 09:26pm | #11

   Hey JPatrick,I'm surprised to hear that you've had problems with the Disston scraper, it's one of the brands that I usually recommend, but then as I said earlier, I like a stiffer card. I can take that off your hands if you don't want it.My favorite is an old Stanly that my father gave me, although I have a Kuntz that I will occasionally warm up.Tom

1. 
   Lilshaver | Feb 18, 2005 12:33am | #14

   Tom,You don't want this scraper. It's one that is relagated to becoming whatever special shape I need for a project. There are at least a half dozen curves cut into it of various diameters. Actually I guess that it's stiffness is an attribute for this purpose. Besides, it's been in my tool drawer for so long.......I'd (sniff) miss it.Jeff

3. 
   mvac | Feb 17, 2005 09:19pm | #10

   Zombee,

   Just to add my two cents, I'm 100% with Jellyrug on the Veritas burnisher (aka the "gizmo"). You'll still need to use fewer strokes, but you'll also spend a lot less time perparing to sharpen, let alone sharpening, and lot more time having fun with your scraper.

   Regards,Mitch

   "I'm always humbled by how much I DON'T know..."

6. 
   CRAIGCONEY_M | Feb 17, 2005 10:01pm | #12

   How are you drawing out the edge?  I lay my scrapers flat on the bench & draw the edge out with the burnisher, all 4 corners.  Then I put the scraper perpendicular to the bench, rod perpendicular to the scraper, rub it with a fair amout of pressure to turn the hook to 0 degrees, then set the rod to 5-7 degrees for the angle, burnishing once once the hook is at 0.  Hope this makes sense.  For  a long time I wasn't drawing out the edge to get a good hook.

   I also have the Veritas variable angle burnisher & it works well.  For my burnisher, I use a Klein screwdriver which actually works better than my burnishing rod. 

    

7. 
   MBL | Feb 17, 2005 11:25pm | #13

   Dear friend,

   Learned from an old timer that a burnishing tool is not really needed.

   Since then, have been doing it with just a bastard file at right angles to the card.

   As the file grabs and gridns, it also creates the bur.

   Try it. It couldn't be simpler.

   Best of all.

   -mbl-

8. 
   elbert | Feb 18, 2005 07:46am | #15

   I too had a time learning the "trick" to getting a good burr.  From your description of what you are doing, I think you are missing the step of drawing out the edge befor you apply the burr.  Two of the others commented on this, either directly or indirectly.

   After you have a square and honed edge, you then need to draw out the steel befor you curl the burr.  You need a wire edge to make into a curl.  Just trying to get this by burnishing the square edge is almost impossible. 

   To do this you lay the scraper flat on the work surface, and run the burnisher along the edge almost parallel to the  scraper, bearing down slightly toward the edge.  This will draw out the steel that will become the curl.  It only takes a few 3-4 passes (mild effort, not real hard preassure) to get a result.  Flip it over and do the same to the other side.  Now mount the scraper in the vertical position to bend this wire edge back toward the flat side of the scraper.  As others have said, it only takes a few passes with mild preassure (5 degreeangle off of the 90 degree from the face of the edge) is good as already stated).

   When you get this down, you will be able to put a new edge on a scrapper in secconds.  Further, you don't need to re-square the edge every time.  I redo the edge a number of times befor I re-square the edge.