Replies

1. 
   woodman54 | Apr 07, 2004 03:10am | #1

   I have built several sets of 4 by 8 garage/ shop doors. If it is at all possible I would build a center jamb to support to 2 inner doors. You get better security and weather stripping.

1. 
   racwood1 | Apr 10, 2004 06:53pm | #3

   Thanks for the input.  I do not believe a center jamb is an option.  If it was it would be "temporary " in nature - only in place and used when all the doors fully closed.  Is that what you were alluding to?  Kind regards, Rich

2. 
   billsams | Apr 07, 2004 02:02pm | #2

   Rich, you could look at the sliding track and hardware that is used for barns, etc at your local farm supply. The wheels will pivot in the  track keeping your door aligned. The problem would be allowing the clearance necessary, at the stop, for the middle door edge to move to the inside of the jamb. That meaning not positioning the roller right at the edge/end of the door but inset 6" or more.

   Usually for pocket doors and the like, it is recommended the hangers/rollers  to be attached to the top rail rather than the stile. This means the joinery at that point needs to be designed to carry that load.

   One combination of things you could do, would be to hinge the two outer doors like you said, but have the two inner doors run on the barn door type track sliding past (on the outside) the hinged doors. Thus giving you the option of having a 4'or 8' center opening without having to open the two hinged doors until necessary.

   Hope this helps.

   Bill

1. 
   racwood1 | Apr 10, 2004 07:09pm | #4

   Bill,

   Thanks for taking the time to chime in.  I am familiar with the Farm style hardware you reference.  However, I recall the wheels being more a "trolley" type arrangements with two steel wheels on either side of the central hanger bolt that attatched to the door frame below.  The wheels of course riding in a rail mounted above.  I imagine what you are describing should be a single roller/wheel or at least have some sort of pivoting ability accomodate the changing angle of the inner door as it opens up and folds in towrds the outer door.  Could I not make up some sort of attatchment that would tie into the upper edge of the outer-most stile and securely anchor there at the extreme edge of that inner door which I need to guide along and support?  My hope would be that these two points would meet up with the hinged exterior edges the two outer doors.  Am I thinking of this correctly?  Maybe I need to make a model to visualize it!!

   Your idea of rail mounting the two inner doors is sound but would not work in my small lot,  suburban setting.  Again thanks for your input.  Kind regards, Rich

1. 
   billsams | Apr 11, 2004 01:17am | #5

   Rich, you are welcome,

   I was thinking of the twin wheels on either side of the bolt, not a single wheel although that might well work. When the bracket is bolted to the door the set of twin wheels pivot/spin to line up with the track.

   Yes I would think you could mount the bracket at the extreme edge for lining up with the hinge point with any necessary modifications. Making a full size drawing with actual swing points as well as a model would help you make those final decisions and/or adjustments.

   Another thought/source I have used for interior pocket doors are the much, much heavier hardware from Johnson hardware at http://www.johnsonhardware.com/. Much stronger hardware here than what is stocked at your local hardware store.

    Let us know how it goes.

   Take care

   Bill

1. 
   racwood1 | Apr 11, 2004 04:51am | #6

   Bill,

   Again thanks for your help.  Now that I think about it the old 4 wheel trolley setup may in fact have a pivoting capability to it.  If so that might work slick.  I will check some out at the hardware/fram supply store.  The website proved helpful.  I will work on a better drawing and  perhpas then a model.  One other thoguht I had was to place a swivelling caster at BOTTOM of outer edge of inner doors and use it in conjunction with some sort of spring loaded mechanism to keep it in firm contact with the ground - maybe even in some sort of a shallow "track" to guide in in the cement.  With doors this size and with this much torque produced do you think I should consider support at both top and bottom - or just the top sufficient?  Kind regards, Rich

1. 
   billsams | Apr 11, 2004 03:02pm | #7

   Rich, I think a track and guide at the bottom of the doors would be just that, a guide. I beleive most of your weight should rely on the upper rollers and track if possible.

    There will be alot of outward pull & strain on the hinges in the fully open position, the weight of two doors. Large strap hinges (on the jamb side) may be desired with through bolts. A sliding (bolt/stop?), something at the hinged junction of each pair of doors (at the bottom, to the ground) to support the doors while open might reduce the strain.

   (Just got up, working off the top of my head here.)

    I went through similar decison making processes when I built my two pair of shop doors. One pair for an 8' x 8' opening and another for an 11' x 9' opening. Decided to go with the farm track on both. If you like, take a look at my website http://www.jwsjoinery.com  under shop, click on the thumbnail pics for larger view of doors.(website needs updating as a few interior aspects have changed)

   The supporting capability is more than enough. Your situation needs to take in the torque aspect.

   As you have mentioned, work out a model and exhaust all possibilities before starting, that way you will know for sure you are doing the right thing.

   Hope I made sense.

   Bill

2. 
   racwood1 | Apr 13, 2004 08:12pm | #8

   Bill, Thanks again for the advice - and nice website.  I may attempt to pick your brain on a stair railing remodel I am about to attemept as well!  I have thought a great deal about how to hang/guide/support these monster doors.  I am in agrrement with you regarding what to provide.  I will now attempt to work up some good drawings and then build some sort of a model.  I am still think of some sort of simple track at the bottom in which to run a urathane type wheel with a great bearing so that bottom edge of inner door cannot flex inward as it is opened.  While this would bear very little weight (if any) I think this would greatly reduce any resultant torque on whatever hinging arrangment I come up with.  Still thinking/dreaming about what exactly how to mount and what to use up top on the outer corner of inner doors to ride in a track and take the vast majority of the weight.  It'll be fuun project as I am a "wannabee" engineer among many other things!!  Again, Thank you.  Kind regards, Rich