Replies

1. 
   DennisS | Sep 18, 2002 10:38am | #1

   You use your saw much more intesively than I do and obviously have a better relationship with it than I do mine. So understand my comments relative to my degree of knowledge in such things ....

   The questions:

   1) what is the most significant benefit the carter guides bring to the mix?

   On the surface I expected better support for the blades (closer proximity of the guides to the blade without the worry of frequent and prolonged contact) than the stock guides on my Delta 14"+riser 3/4hp saw. I think this has been basically fulfilled except - see below question 3

   2) can I use these guides with 1/8" blades?

   Don't know. I seldom use less than a 3/8" blade.

   3) do the bearings get gummed up frequently?

   Here's where the "rub" seems to be. In sawing a lot of green wood (for turning blanks) not only the bearing rollers but the blade seems to gum up a lot more than with friction guide blocks. I don't know if this is because some of the stuff I've sawn recently has been so much greener (read freshly harvested) than what I had cut before. But the stock guide blocks seemed to run cleaner due, I guess, to their quaisi scraping action on the blade.

   4) the use of a sphere rather than a block would lead me to the conclusion that there is a smaller contact patch on the blade than with blocks, is this an issue?

   I don't understand the sphere part. My Carter bearing guides are standard roller bearings, about 1/4" or so wide.

   I had to dissasemble the table from my Delta saw to get the lower guides installed. Pain in the lower back. I find them actually harder to adjust than the micro adjustments on the stock guide assembly. My Carters have only allen set screws to tighten them down. You have to tweak them just right and hope they don't move much when you tighten the allen screw.

   Other than that, they seem to work pretty well. But if I had know then what I know now, I doubt if I would have spent the money on them for the amount of bandsawing I do.

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   jeffn7 | Sep 18, 2002 04:55pm | #2

   thanks, I misstated question #4... what I meant to get at is that the contact patch of a roller bearing would seem to be less than a square block, therfore less stability?

   Good point about the micro adjustors, one feature about the Jet that I really like is that changing blades is a breeze because all of the adjustments are so easy to make, I'd hate to loose that.

   thanks for you feedback, it's just what I was hoping for.

2. 
   Schenker15 | Sep 18, 2002 05:03pm | #3

   Jeff,

   I have the same saw -- the 14" closed-stand Jet.  I also use 1/2" Timberwolf blades.  I have done curved work using 1/8" Olsen blades.

   I had the Carter Guides for a little while, then I returned them.  I didn't see any significant improvement using them.  And I certainly did not find them worth the $150.  Cool blocks, and tuning up before each use, has allowed me to make beatiful, perfect cuts on my band saw.

   I am considering installing a new tension spring, thrust bearings, and zero-clearance plate from Iturra.

   Bottom line -- I don't see any great benefit to the Carter Guides.

1. 
   Azeddie | Sep 18, 2002 05:20pm | #4

   I have the Delta 14"...have the cool blocks (see no use for the carter bearings) less blades contact plus farther away from stock is not good..

   I did just upgrade to the Iturra spring (much beefier than the flimsy original and another thing i did was purchase a hand crank for detensioning the blade from Highland hardware , NICE and easy to do 5 turns and its loosemakinsawdust

2. 
   jeffn7 | Sep 18, 2002 05:25pm | #5

   thanks... I'm starting to wonder if they are worth it as well.

   By the way, I have the Iturra spring and it's worth every cent. I was really surprised to see how much more resistance that spring offers over the stock one. With my homemade tension guage (not very accurate, I admit) I can tension the spring using the factory indicator marks, as opposed to the original spring where I'd crank it down well past the mark. I don't know why the manufacturers don't just include one of these springs in every bandsaw they sell, it really improves the machine and I really doubt the couple of dollars it would cost them for the spring would erase their margins.

   The zero clearance plates are okay, what I do is buy a 5 pack from Woodworkers Supply for a couple of bucks. They are cheap plastic discs, but after a couple of months the clearance slot gets pretty beat up with the blade drifting, etc. so I pop in a new one.

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Sep 18, 2002 06:43pm | #6

   Fine Woodworking ran an article last year (Mar/Apr 2001) comparing bandsaw blade support systems. For 14" bandsaws they liked plain, old Cool Blocks. They were easy to adjust, worked with all sized blades, didn't damage blades, provided excellent support and, they are reasonably priced.

   They did not like the Carter system as the large diameter wheels raised the blade support point up quite a bit on top and lowered it on the bottom. This reduced the support given to the blade and lead to the potential of tracking problems. In addition, they were sensitive to adjustment and were expensive to replace when a blade mis-tracked and ruined the bearing surface. Of course, the blade was kaput too.

   For larger saws, the Iturra Bandrollers where recommended.

   Before purchasing the Carters, you might want to go to the library and take a look at the article.

2. 
   HowardAcheson | Sep 18, 2002 06:47pm | #7

   Another point. When I called Iturra earlier this year to purchase a new spring for my Jet BS, they told me that the newer Jet 14" BS contained a tension spring that was very good and they did not feel that their Iturra spring was required. As it turned out, I had an older Jet so I purchased the new spring.

1. 
   jeffn7 | Sep 18, 2002 07:52pm | #8

   interesting, my Jet is about a year old and the difference between the Iturra and the stock spring was dramatic. The new springs must be very recent, or my bandsaw was sitting in the warehouse for some time, so it's not that new.

   thanks for the pointer to the FWW article, I'll track it down.

   Anyone know of a good source for thrust bearings?

   Edited 9/18/2002 12:57:19 PM ET by JEFFN7

3. 
   Hempstalk | Sep 18, 2002 08:38pm | #9

   Hi there Jeff.  Some years ago I bought a 20" General bandsaw.  This saw came with the option of bearing guides.  They are machined aluminum and are pretty much a copy of the Carter guides.  The option was $225.  I used this saw with out bearing guides in a fine woodworking program for quite some time and found it to work very well.  So why buy the bearing guides.  For my saw it meant almost 2" more of resaw capability.  14" in total.  Since I make my own veneer and do a lot of resawing I needed the extra capability.  The bearings are off the shelf and very easy and cheap to replace.  Not that they need to been done very often.  The vertical bearing behind the blade has a groove milled in it to help keep the blade from slipping side to side and isn't as easy to find.   You can use any size blade with them.  I will admit that they do take a little more fussing around with to set accurately than regular guides.  The bearings on this model seem to be a smaller diameter than that of the Carter which eliminate the gap between the stock and the guide the others have mentioned.  Less than 7/16" gap.  The one thing I really like about the guides for resawing is the ability to see which way the blade is tracking.  As you feed stock through the saw the side bearing will turn slightly as they are set very close to the blade.  If one bearing begins to speed up and spin much faster you know the blade is starting to drift that way.  Usually slowing down the feed rated corrects the problem and you can visually see when the blade is running true again.  I can only recommend these as I have never tried the Carters on a saw before.  General makes these for their 15" saw as well and might be worth comparing to the Carters to see if they would fit your saw.  Sold in Canadian funds they could come out reasonably priced for those in the US.  If you don't plan on doing much resawing though I think your probably better off saving your money and buying a different toy or tool if you prefer.

1. 
   jeffn7 | Sep 18, 2002 10:22pm | #10

   I do a fair amount of resawing, which is why I am interested in even the smallest performance improvement. I checked out the rollers on General's web site, but the pictures are not very revealing. There is a General dealer not far from where I am, they may have something I could actually see.

   thanks again.

4. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 19, 2002 08:40am | #11

   JEFF

      I won't comment on the Carter's as I have not used them. I have had no trouble with just running cool-blocks. Off the subject, but you mentioned the Wood-Slicer 1/2" blade from Highland. I also use them as I live about 22 miles from store. I was curious as to how you like the WS compared to the Timber-Wolves. I also use them.

      If you get a chance, reply by e-mail if you wish. I don't won't to inter-rupt the thread.. Thanks..

   sarge..jt

1. 
   jeffn7 | Sep 19, 2002 04:58pm | #12

   Sarge,

   I wish I could answer that for you, but I haven't done enough resawing with the woodslicer to form an opinion on it relative to the timberwolf. I have done some light stuff in soft woods and the results were very good, only a slight amount of cleanup was needed... at least equal to the timberwolf. I am looking forward to sinking it into some hardwood, I am curious to see how noticeable the variable TPI is.

   wish I lived within driving distance to Highland, they really have an awesome selection of tools and supplies. Have you done any of their classes?

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 19, 2002 06:36pm | #13

   Jeff

      Yeah, I suppose I have. I got started WW in 72'. Highland and FWW cranked up around mid-70's. I've been to seminars there with Frid, Odate, Kresnov, Klaus and Maloof. Maloof is there again in Oct. They have hands-on work-shops every week-end for several years now. It is truly a learning center. I've run into former Pres. Carter on occasion as he drops by occassionally. They used to be in a small building across the street when they first opened. The teaching room was in the basement with wooden benches made into a slanted dirt wall if I remember correctly. Nice aura to the place.

      Enough rambling. Drop a line when you use that Wood-Slicer as I'd like to know your opinion. I hadn't learned much in 30 years, but I'm still digging. What I have learned is that is no-one that knows it all. If we pool data in a positive way we can get a lot closer. Still no-one will ever know it all!! That's what Sam Maloof told me a long time ago, anyway. It stuck. If you can't believe an old man rockin' away in a rocking chair, who are you gonna believe!? I've seen some real heroes in my time, and Mr. Maloof is one of them from the WW department.

   Have a great day..

   sarge..jt