I have tried all the different methods of sharpening flat chisels and plane irons, as there are so many opinions and my personal preference is a wet grinder (Grizzly) followed by 750 diamond stone, then a 1000 water stone hone and finally a 8000 water stone hone.
When it comes to carving chisels though, they give my water stones too much uneven wear, so I prefer “scary sharp” following the 750 diamond stone, using 1000 and then 2000 grit. I use a 1/4″ stainless steel plate as the abrasive paper backing with a spray can adhesive and find this a lot quicker than flattening the water stones afterwards. For the inside curvature, I use abrasive paper, wrapped around a dowel.
I notice however that the carving professionals use a buffing wheel, with a compound. If this quicker and easier, I will adopt the method, but common sense tells me that it is impossible to get a 100% flat edge leading to the tip of the carving tool, as the deflection of the buff at this point will always cause a bit of curvature.
I will appreciate experienced opinions.
Replies
Hmmm, am I a step or two behind the times?
As one who dabbles in carving as a profession I can assure you that the felt wheels are certainly an option but that not all professional carvers have made that switch.
It boils down to whatever works for you. I could sharpen a gouge with the rocks found on my property, there is no wrong way if it produces a properly sharpened tool. I know that Ian Agrell has switched his shop over to the felt wheels and they like it so I'm sure it works.
I use an oil stone for the heavy work then ceramics at the bench. The oil stone is way across the shop and does not get near the workpiece. Ceramics don't dish and using them dry means no contamination of the work piece. It works very well for me.
Out of every hour of actual carving I probably spend less than 3 minutes touching up my tools and it's nearly always at the bench using ceramics.
I'm going to extend this invitation. At MontanaFest I'll be doing a workshop on carving. The first 30 minutes will be on the principles and mechanics of sharpening. If someone wants to tape it I'll be glad to allow distribution in any form as long as no profit is taken. Perhaps a video could be passed around, or a DVD or something. I get asked very often about how to sharpen these tools and in person it takes a very short time, a video of some sort would be a good second choice.
Lee
Lee,
Thanks for your reply, I'm not a professional, so I appreciate your input.
I agree, to sharpen a carving chisel once it is ready, is very quick. Depending on the brand though, the first time sharpening can take quite a bit of time.
Can you please give me a link for the supply of your ceramic stone and what grit do you use? Also have you tried Arkansas, as a comparison?
Well, I guess this is really going to sound like an endorsement for ceramics ...I bought a set of ceramics from Spyderco at a show in Suffren, NY about 20 years ago. I have the fine and the medium grit stone. I use their medium grit stone almost exclusively, it's the best compromise between fine edge and speed. Since I am not interested in showing off anymore the medium is perfectly adequate for the edges on all my tools, plane irons, carving tools and chisels. The fine stone would undoubtedly produce a finer edge but I don't need to waste my time because it's the point of diminishing returns for me.The stones I bought 20 years ago are still flat. Read that sentence again.I used to use Arkansas stones and slips and gave them all to a student as a gift to reward her dedication, I had no more use for them after a short time with the ceramics.I do not know if Spyderco is a superior ceramic, I don't know if they are priced well, I don't know if they are better than other ceramics, I simply know that they work well for me. Here's the link, I have the set of all four slips as well as the fine and medium stones. I am not endorsing Spyderco but I'm very happy with my sharpening system. http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/list.php?genre=sharpenerYou'll still need a means of hogging out metal when you're working a damaged tool. I use a grinder with a medium stone and an oil stone for this. The ceramics are just for bezels (microbevels) and I use them dry.Lee
Lee,
I should have communicated with you sooner, as I have obviously missed the boat on this one!!! Purchased three water stones and three water slip stones about two weeks ago, %^&*(^*.
Seems as if ceramics are the way to go, even for the fanatics who wish to show off, with a grit of 30,000.
Just found this link...
http://www.shaptonstones.com/
Don't get me wrong, Jellyrug. You can get a perfectly good edge with sandpaper, water stones, dry stones or any other material that abrades metal. Your chief complaint was that your carving tools were dishing out your water stones. Ceramics don't dish and that was the reason for me suggesting them. I don't want anyone to think that my technique is THE technique, that's something we carvers get excited about after a few pints but when we sober up it's clear that no one holds all the cards. When I teach this topic I teach principles and mechanics. These things apply to whatever method you use and people walk away from my instruction able to use what they learned whether they use oil or water stones, felt wheels or arkansas, ceramics or diamond.Don't feel bad about the water stones, they will work just fine.Lee
I agree with your comments on the Spyderco ceramics, but find that they are less likely to glaze if used with a squirt of water. For the initial grinding I love the Hirschmann Visible Grinder. The slotted horizontal wheel allows one to watch every particle of iron being removed. That's a tool I don't see mentioned often, being primarily a machine-shop item.
Tom
I will appreciate experienced opinions..
My grandPA got really mad when he hit me with his leather stropp. And my butt messed it up for honnin' his RAZOR!
I use an oil stone for the first step and then sandpaper up to 2000 grit. I use to wrap the 2000 grit paper around a shaped piece of wood to hone the inside radius of the gouges, but I just got a few Japanese water slip stones, and these have worked great. After the sand paper, I use a buffing wheel for all but the insides of very small ( 1.0mm) veiners and any V tool. If you hold the cutting edge at a tangent to the wheel and use light pressure it will give a superior edge. For the tools that I won't buff, I use a shaped piece of wood with some buffing compound, or diamond paste on it.
Rob Millard
My carving tools spend more time sharp since I got a felt wheel and some (green) rouge. It only takes about 10 seconds to rehone when I notice that my cuts are no longer clean. I find I rehone about 10 - 15 times before I need to resharpen. I use some Japanese slip stones for the bulk of my "base" sharpening as well. Some folks get a dedicated buffing setup, and mount it "backwards" so that the wheel is spinning up towards you. That allows you to buff in the same orientation that you normally sharpen tools (bezel up, handle down). Rather than do that, I have to buff my tools with the handle up and the cutting edge pointed down. I usually keep my feet apart - if the tool gets knocked out of my hands, I'd prefer not to ding it up on the bones of my feet...Lee - I'd love to see a video of your sharpening approach! -t
I do all of my sharpening on power grinders. Any heavy sharpening is done the white alundum wheels, followed by a cratex de-burring wheel which has been rounded over so that it has a long narrow elliptical curve ending with about a 3/16 dia. on the end. A light spray of water on it and the tool just before touching it with the tool keeps everything cool. I go from there to a MDF wheel which has the same shape which is coated with white compound. While I have one mounted on one of my grinders, I also have one on the faceplate of one of my lathes. I like to have it mounted outboard so I can step around behind and use the top edge closer to the focal length of the visor, while the wheel is running away from me.These last two steps are done from the back side with the wheel turning away from the edge. I do all of my sharpening freehand with a magnifying visor on and a good light just over my head. If you always set the tool against the wheel with the heel of the bevel then slowly rock up to the bevel it is easy to keep a good bevel without getting a secondary bevel or any round-over like you might expect to get with leather.Back to the first step. I use a Cool-Mist system which is a little magnetic base spray-nozzle which sprays cold water right on the tool and stone from about 2" away. I can grind as fast as I want with no worry of drawing the temper.
Rootburl, I think you'd find your tools would work much better if you put a bezel (microbevel) on both faces. Without a bezel the best you can do is pare. Paring is the same action as whittling or chip carving, you remove small chips because you need to leverage them away. Properly sharpened carving tools will cut much deeper and with control if they have a microbevel. On the face against the work the point between the bezel and the rest of the tool acts as a guide. You ride on this point and by raising or lowering the handle you can cut deeper or shallower. The bezel on the side away from the work acts as a chipbreaker, just like the chipbreakers in planes. The action created by this chipbreaker relieves pressure on the carving tool and breaks the chips as you move through the wood. You can remove far more material this way with less effort.Lee
Lee,
What angle do you suggest as the back bevel and I trust the same additional angle added to the front bevel?
Perhaps better English would read, what is the angle you recommend for the bezel?
Jellyrug, Lee Gringinger and All,It is not my intention to sound condescending in any manner, but I have read through all (I believe) of this thread and decided to make the following comments based on my own personal experience.First of all, one of the wisest things that I ever did as a woodworker, carver, you-name-it, was to purchase 'The Complete Guide To Sharpening' by Leonard Lee of Lee Valley/Veritas. IMHO, if it ain't in this book, you don't need it. He covers more than anyone will ever need in two lifetimes. Having said that, Chapter 9, 'Carving Tools' will give you everything you will need to sharpen your carving tools including the inner bevel referred to by Mr. Grindinger. One could write into the next millennium on the multitude of methods on this very important aspect of our craft. In a nutshell, you have to find out what works best for you. However, before you do so you should have a good understanding of the basics of sharpening your particular tool, iron, etc. before you can advance your knowledge and 'polish and hone' your own techniques. One way to do this is to read and understand a good book on the subject. This will prevent much frustration and wasted time because you will have a better understanding of what your goals should be for sharpening your tool(s). In addition, you will know what to purchase to attain these goals or even perhaps, how to use what you already have to do the same.In my particular case, I have used felt and abrasive wheels, a 1 x 42-inch belt sander (geared to run very slowly) utilizing felt, leather (both charged with honing compound) and 15 micron belts, wet-dry sandpaper, water stones, ceramic water stones (Bester), DMT Diamond Whetstone, and the Tormek system. I also find a Dremel Tool with a small, hard felt wheel very handy for polishing the in-cannel bevels of carving tools. Today I still make use of each if they are the quickest way to the edge I need. This is not to say that a person needs all of this to sharpen properly. One of my goals when purchasing tools is that they have multi-tasking capabilities. For example, the Tormek does my jointer, planer, carving tools, chisels, and so on. My methods are not the subject of these comments. Truth is, and Mr. Grindinger said it best, once the edge is formed - AND you take proper care of this edge - all you will have to do as you do your work is to, on occasion, tune it up a bit with a leather strop, ceramic stone, or whatever you prefer for this task. But the grunt work has to be done first.Anyway, I want to pass on something that has quickened my sharpening the face of plane irons which I hope will help someone who reads this.I make my own wooden planes which are built around Ron Hock's excellent irons. However, Mr. Hock is not nice enough to polish his irons prior to delivery so you are left with this task before you can put them (and you) to work. I make a wooden 'holder' which is very easy on the fingers and enables you to flatten and polish the face in no time at all. The pictures should - I hope - be self explanatory. I normally make them from hickory but any wood should work fine. I first cut the holder to a shape which will be comfortable for you to hold, then I lay the iron on it and mark to opening slot with a pencil. I set up my band saw to slice off the thickness of the iron leaving the pre-marked slot standing. If this is left too proud, you can simply shave it off with a chisel. Too proud is better that too shallow else the iron may not stay on. You may have to shave or sand the edges of this protrusion a little to get the iron to fit on. Once you get the iron - face up - on you're set to go. It is important to remember that if you use water stones the water will make the wood which fits into the slot of the iron swell and hold much better. In this case you will need a flat screwdriver to pry off the iron once you are done. If you use a non-water method of sharpening then the wood-to-iron fit must of necessity be much tighter to keep the iron in place. Good luck.Regards,
PhillipNote. These photos blow up larger that the screen (for me at least) and I do not know how to make them 'screen' size. I apologize for this.
Good post Phil,
To hold plane irons for flattening, I attach and hold onto a large powerful magnet from an old speaker.
DONC4,Ah, one-upmanship at its finest. Live and learn.Drinks all around and Cheers! to you, sir.Regards,
PhillipP.S. BTW I live just a hop-skip-and jump from you: Oak Park.
Phil,
Please come as my guest to some local woodworking club meetings.
Fox Valley Woodworkers meets in Batavia 1st Tuesday of the month.
DuPage Woodworkers meets in Lombard at the College of DuPage 3rd Wednesday.
My wife was born and raised in river Forest and her sister still lives there.
Small world.
Don
Phillip,
I do not have a Tormek, but with everything I purchased so far and one or two sharpening things still to buy, my spending approaches that of a Tormek, with the full- house accessories. I thought the Tormek does everything, rough grind, fine grind, hone and for just about every tool you can think of? Why do you still use other tools?
Next question is whether you can get a true flat surface within 0.002 inches on planer blades say around 15" long, with the Tormek?
The reason I'm asking, is because I may purchase one, provided I can get rid of all my other stuff.
Jellyrug,The answer is a simple one, two or three degrees off the face. I do it by simply rocking the tool on the grind, find that angle and raise the handle a couple of degrees. On the unground face I simply use the slip two or three degrees off the tool.Frankly, I don't pay much attention to angles, I suppose it's become something I no longer need to think about. I just do it all by touch and feel.Lee
Lee, I actually do put a micro face bevel on my carving tools, and may even put various amounts on the bevel depending on which tool. A spoon will obviously have more than a straight or a long bend. I started carving back in the sixties, but I am still finding I can learn a thing or two.
I was mainly touting the merits of using MDF for a polishing wheel, and the Cool-Mist is a very versatile tool that I have never seen advertised in a wood working catalog.
Have you ever seen one? I will use it on another grinder when I am sharpening carbide tools and I will even stick it to the top of my smallest open-base table-saw with a grinding wheel to sharpen planer or jointer knives. It is nice to be able to grind as fast as you want without having to worry about burning the tool.I wish I could make it up there this summer and see your place. I would head on up and pack into Glacier while i was at it. Later Keith
http://www.treetales.com
Rootburl, I have not seen one. I know carvers, carvers I have very high regard for, that use motorized tools for sharpening. I don't doubt for a second they work and can do an excellant job.Lee
Lee,
Does this strike a chord?"There was a compelling persuasiveness about the famous cry -
'Give us the tools and we will finish the job.' One may be forgiven
for responding less eagerly to the scholar, be he sociologist or anything
else, who says - 'Give me a job, and I will spend the rest of my life
polishing the tools'."
- Professor T. H. Marshall - Sociology at the Crossroads (London, 1947) p. 19
(I have done an academic apprenticeship and perhaps resemble that remark - glass houses etc)David
I'll leave the highbrow literary arts to you, Patto but you can be sure if ever I'm looking for someone to make a toast I'll be looking for you.Lee
How do you reshape the crytek wheel?
Thanks,
Don
Don, It has been so long, I don't recall for sure, but Ithink I probably set up a tool rest and used a carbide tiped lathe tool followed by a dressing stick. It is spelled Cratex
Thanks for the info. Mine is getting metal particles imbedded in the circumference. I guess I could remove them with a dressing stick. Is this the same type of stick used on aluminum oxide wheels? Or is there a better way to dress this type of wheel.
Thanks again,
Don
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