Replies

1. 
   LeeGrindinger | Feb 08, 2005 04:55am | #1

   In a word, carbon paper. Hmmm, well that's two words.

   Draw your pattern on paper then simply trace it using carbon paper onto your blocks.

   Lee

1. 
   xpayroll | Feb 08, 2005 07:48am | #3

   I thought about using carbon paper to put it on the blank but, how does one make the pattern in the beginning?  The carving is not one dementional so going over it with paper and a crayon or something dosen't get the bottoms. . . .such as the center of the flower that is lower. . . all I get are the outer portions of the petals.  I guess I manually fill in?

   No paint, the blanks are made from the old pine from some rafter material that was removed, so I don't think they will even need stain.

1. 
   LeeGrindinger | Feb 08, 2005 08:12am | #4

   Ahhh, therin lies the art of carving. What you're going to attempt is called relief carving. Relief carving is generally done in two steps. The first step is to relieve the background. This is done by setting in. Setting in defines the perimeter of your features, then you ground. Grounding is done with a router, carving tools, scrapers, whatever works. The ground is the plane from which the carved part will rise.The second step, the fun step, the most challenging and artistic step is the modeling. This is when you, the artisan decide just how those leaves will roll and undulate, which direction your bud will bloom and how your plant will grow.Shading your drawing is pointless, you're going to immediately cut it off. This is the art, take small steps. You mentioned practicing on a 2 X 6. If your 2 x 6 is Douglas fir you'll need an asylum, copious amounts of Prosac and counselling for many weeks. Get some decent wood, you'll really frustrate yourself with crummy wood. Get a nice hunk of poplar or cherry or basswood or walnut. Go to a local cabinet shop and buy a scrap or call up your buddy that cut your blocks and ask for a few for practice. Give yourself a decent chance at this.Lee

2. 
   AlanTurner | Feb 08, 2005 01:04pm | #9

   Carving is a new sport for me, but that won't stop me from a suggestion. I would practice in the actual wood that you will be using. I rarely use softwoods for anything, but have made a number of boxes of old heart pine, 3/8" thick, to hold blocks. I had a bit of trouble handcutting dovetails in the heart pine due to the great varaince in the hardness of the early wood and late wood. Like night and day. Hence my suggestion to practice in the same wood you will be carving.Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

3. 
   IanDG | Feb 08, 2005 06:22pm | #13

   There is one way that will give you more detail and that is to place your pattern block face down on a scanner and scan it -- then use the scan and carbon paper to transfer the pattern to the blank.

   That'll give you all the background detail -- all you need is a scanner!!

   IanDG

1. 
   xpayroll | Feb 08, 2005 09:28pm | #15

   Lee,  I appreciate your comments.  You described exactly what I think I will do except for the creative part.  My hope is only to duplicate the original rosette blocks to the point that someone looking at them can restrain laughter.  The thing I have working for me is that the doors have transoms putting the rosettes up higher so it will be harder to see detail. :)

   IanDG, That's a good idea.  I have a scanner/copier.  I'll try it.  I made a templet but, it leaves a lot to be desired.

   s4s,  I think my practice material is east Texas yellow pine.  I have to do the real thing on 110 yr. old east Texas virgin pine.  They don't appear to be anyting alike.  I intended to do two practice runs (I had to turn some stairway platform post finials and I didn't start to get close until about the third one) so I think I'll get some of the old rafter material for the second one.

   Uncle Dunc,  The guy that made the blocks for me said he could carve them as well.  He was talking $100 to $125 each (to be established after he did one) plus the $25 for the blanks.  I don't know the going rate but that got my attention.  But, after a couple years he hasn't gotten to them.  Now, that's about the only thing left on that part of the project so, here I go.

   I've got some (5) Pheil chisels ordered.  The guy that was originally going to do them make chisel recommendations and I saw a recent article in FW were Pheil was recommended.  Truth is, I'm really kinda excited about doing this.  Plus I have a 20 yr. old son who seems somewhat interested.  Maybe I can post some "original" and "duplicate" pictures later on.

   thanks everyone.

1. 
   IanDG | Feb 08, 2005 09:51pm | #16

   A technique I use for marking out copy relief carving is to carefully measure the depth from the surface of certain features on the pattern and before I start carving [and cut away my marking out!] I mark the depth, less a 32nd, on a drill bit and carefully drill my block.

   That way the center and depth of the middle of your flowers, say, would still be visible during the carving process.

   IanDG

2. 
   TTed | Feb 08, 2005 09:55pm | #17

   If you haven't done much carving, I'd consider getting some scrap limewood, basswood, cherry, walnut, mahogany, etc... and working out the technique first. Carving softwood is going to be a lot harder, and even though your technique will be a little different when you step up (down?) to the 'big league,' you'll have a better sense of how clean the carving can be. Your chisels are going to need to be razor sharp to get clean cuts in pine. I'll also add this bit of sacrilege: you can clean up the edges of your less than perfect carvings with a riffler. I would never be so impolite as to ask a true master like Lee if he deigns to use such a base tactic, but for hacks like me... One other thing - don't forget that you can re-use your practice blanks. Just bandsaw off the relief carving, smooth up the face and go back at it. You could probably carve a half dozen 0.5" deep faces starting with a 2" thick plank.Check out this guy's books:http://www.frederickwilbur-woodcarver.com/publications.htmI only have his older one (architectural detail), but it has some very good advice and examples for carving exactly the kind of thing you're tackling. -t

3. 
   Patto | Feb 09, 2005 01:55am | #18

   If they are going to be that high you need to consider your finishing technique also. Detailed furniture stuff is often finished to a very fine and detailed standard - the audience is close to the work. Architectural carving was often deliberately left with some tool marks and a lot less fine detail. The reason is that the relationship between work, light source and audience requires some shadow for the work to be seen properly from a distance. Too much fine detail muddles the view.

   I would have to say that I have not achieved this balance yet. It seems well explained in a reprinted book available from Lee Valley - Hodson(?) - and if you have any local turkish restauants that have old carved window screens you will have a good example.

   David

2. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 08, 2005 05:04am | #2

   If they're going to be painted, consider making a mold and casting them instead. Here's one commercial source.

   http://www.abatron.com/home010.htm

   Or you can ask Lee for a quote, which will give you some idea of the amount of time and/or experience it will take to do the job right. :)

   
   

   ---

   Edited 2/7/2005 9:06 pm ET by Uncle Dunc

1. 
   LeeGrindinger | Feb 08, 2005 08:14am | #5

   Hey Unc, Right now I've got about 16 corner blocks waiting to get onto my carving bench. I do a fair amount of contract carving, pilasters, corner blocks and such.Will Carve for FoodLee

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 08, 2005 09:43am | #6

   >> I do a fair amount of contract carving ...Yeah, I suspected you might be able to give him a quote. I also suspect your quote would make his skin crawl and his hair stand on end.

1. 
   notDusty | Feb 08, 2005 10:05am | #7

          Say Uncle ,

                Putting a value on true craftsmanship and talent can be tricky , when you have the only gold mine in town , it falls under supply and demand so to speak .

                                          dusty

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 08, 2005 11:53am | #8

   Putting a value on true craftsmanship and talent isn't tricky, it's either easy or impossible. If a willing buyer and a willing seller agree on a price, that's the value. If there is no willing seller, or no willing buyer, or they can't agree on a price, the question of value is meaningless.

2. 
   notDusty | Feb 08, 2005 06:14pm | #12

        Uncle Dunc ,

                   Agreed , value like beauty lies in the eye of the be-holder or in this case buyer and seller .

3. 
   LeeGrindinger | Feb 08, 2005 04:58pm | #11

   Dusty, if this is a gold mine I'm gonna start a new hole!There are a lot of carvers around, most just have the sense to keep their heads down.Lee

2. 
   LeeGrindinger | Feb 08, 2005 04:54pm | #10

   Yeah, my prices have that effect on a lot of people. Funny thing is I'm down to my last Lear, I can only afford to keep one pilot on the payroll, I've had to limit my lunches in Paris to one a week, I'm missing more Broadway show openings than ever before and my dry cleaner is upping the price to remove hide glue from my work tuxes.Just where does all the money go?Lee

1. 
   UncleDunc | Feb 08, 2005 09:12pm | #14

   Just to be clear, I'm not abusing you for how much you charge. I'm happy for you. The more people who get used to the idea of paying for high end carving, the better chance I have of selling high end software engineering. :)