I bought a Delta bench grinder and tablesaw that are decent tools for the money, but did not realize that they are not compatible with…well, anything. Can’t be expanded, and don’t work with any Delta accessories.
The tablesaw does the job, but I can see where corners were cut. For example, the blade opening is crudely machined and does not accept Delta inserts. The miter gauge has a lot of slop, and products that correct the fit (such as Fasttrak) cannot be used because the guide blade (aluminum) is thinner than standard–1/4″ instead of 3/8″.
The strange thing is, Delta doesn’t mention these low-end models on their website, and as far as I can tell, they are only available through Amazon. Usually such products are given a generic label–but then Amazon wouldn’t sell nearly as many.
Replies
Is this their direct-drive saw? (i.e., not belt-driven)
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
somehow i think youre unfairly blaming Amazon for your lack of research into buying machinery.
Bill, how do you predict that miter gauges will be thinner than standard? It is not mentioned in the specs, and since Amazon is completely online, there is no showroom where I could do the kind of research available to, say, car buyers--at least, not for models that Delta is distancing itself from.
Two major purchase factors are price and brand name, and I granted that the saw was fair for the price. But customers also make inferences based on brand name, such as intercompatibility and production standards. Whether such inference are justified is irrelevant; Amazon is clearly banking on it.
I'm only saying: Watch out for name brand products that are offered at Amazon, but not promoted by the manufacturer. That is my suggestion on how to research virtual products in a virtual store.
Janet
Edited 11/8/2002 11:03:24 AM ET by DWREAD
Janet, I'll ask again, is this the direct-drive saw? Is it the TS300?
You state: "Delta doesn't mention these low-end models on their website, and as far as I can tell, they are only available through Amazon. " If indeed your saw is the TS300, I've seen that saw at 2 or 3 big box stores. It is described in great detail on the Delta web site.
This may be an example of why it should be ok for novices to post the timeless and constantly repeated thread "Which Tablesaw" here at Knots. Ignore the whiners and post this type of question anytime you want. Had I seen such a thread, with the saw I'm guessing you purchased as the example, I'd have alerted you to some of the shortcomings you've encountered.
I don't know what type of community you live in, or what type of access you have to various big box or tool stores, but if at all possible, you should always window shop where you can touch and feel the various tool options before you order on-line. In the process, you may very well find that you can buy from the store and not lose all that much in savings, if any, over Amazon. Had you been able to purchase this saw at, say, Home Depot, and discovered you weren't happy with it, you could have returned it and found a better model for yourself.
Not to say Amazon might not take it back, but if you've used it, maybe not. Another option: Holiday gift buying is approaching rapidy. You've assembled this saw and it's ready to go. Put an ad in the Little Nickel or the local paper, sell it for close to the original price, and buy yourself something that will put in a happier mood.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
ForestGirl, I forgot to mention that it's the 36-545.
Bob, it's still a good saw for a beginner, and I may have bought it anyway despite its limitations. Basically, I'm dismayed, not cheated, and it seems a risky strategy for a company like Delta, that never before offered a low-end line.
Janet
Janet, I looked up the model on Amazon, where it's described as: Delta 36-545 10" Bench Saw with Stand
The "Bench Saw" part is the dead giveaway here. Delta doesn't have that particular model on their website -- it may have been replaced by another -- but there are 2 bench saws, one with and one without the stand. Perhaps you simply weren't forced, as I was when I first started looking, to only shop and drool without spending any money <grin> -- you know, like the dress or the piece of furniture you "visit" 42 times before buying it. A great dose of this type of shopping and evaluating, and you would have known immediately that a Bench Saw is totally different from a Table Saw.
This is a $99 saw in any Home Depot or Lowe's, the stand runs $29 or so, maybe a little more. Or you can buy my slightly-used Ace clone and the stand that came with my planer for $75 <another grin>.
Hope you have a better experience the next time you buy some toys, ahhhh, I mean tools.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
There's my inexperience showing; I confused a bench saw on a stand with a tablesaw (which some of the reviewers did, too--common misconception?). Is 1/4" the standard miter gauge for a bench saw?
According to the prices you mentioned, I paid a premium for the Delta name, when I could have paid considerably less for the same quality and configuration. Drat. Well, at least my learning experience will be to some other newbie's benefit.
I still wonder why Delta manufactures a table--I mean, bench--saw that is incompatible with their accessories. Wouldn't it be simpler for them to use the same settings to machine the slot an eighth of an inch deeper? Perhaps the table is too thin to allow a 3/8" miter gauge. Or, maybe this model is produced by a subcontracted manufacturer.
Just out of curiosity, where are the expensive Delta saws manufactured?
Hi, Janet, having fun yet? BTW, I have a sister named Janet.
With respect to your question about the miter gauge slot and BGs comment about dado size, both are going to be related to the heft and power of the saw, qualities that cannot be matched in a bench saw that's meant to be light and portable. The miter slots in bench saws match their thin and lightweight aluminum tops. As far as dados go, a bench saw with a direct-drive motor and smaller arbor is not going to handle a large dado set safely.
The bench saw have a definite niche -- the casual home hobbyist, the financially challenged, the contractor who needs to drag the darn thing all over creation when building or finishing homes. Bench saws come in a huge range of quality, but as far as I know none has contractor-saw-sized miter slots or arbors.
I'd imagine the Delta is made in Taiwan, but I don't know for sure, and I don't think it matters. The fact is, you bought an inexpensive saw that is probably made quite well for the price. My little Ace clone cuts amazingly well when you put a quality combo-blade on it, the fence is 90-degrees, and it's easy to carry round. Needless to say, though, my Jet's the one that gets used.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
HI JAMIE: Just for a FYI for you and Dwread, the Delta shopmaster line is mfg in China,the uni-saw,contractors saws,14 inch Industrial line Bandsaws are made in the USA at Tupelo Mississippi..I just like to say it was a sad day for a old Delta Club member like myself when I found out they were making Delta Power Tools in China...
ToolDoc
I believe the country of origin does matter--for now. At one time, "Made in Japan" was synonymous with junk.
A few months ago I bought a serger (for those of you who don't sew, a serger makes the seams on nearly all ready-to-wear). There are lots of brands and models, most of them very expensive, but all sergers for home use are actually sold by the same two Japanese manufacturers to their competitors. Some they still produce in Japan, but an increasing percentage are outsourced to Taiwanese and Chinese factories.
The prevailing opinion seems to be that Japanese-made sergers are better than those from Taiwan or China, and the prices reflect this. So I bought a used Japanese serger (with a Swiss label!) instead of a new machine from Taiwan. It's a great machine.
Re: Your statement "Whether such inference are justified is irrelevant; Amazon is clearly banking on it." Delta is banking on it even more aren't they? At most Amazon asked for a saw that they could sell for less, they never spec'ed it be incompatible with the rest of the Delta line, Delta did that to save money. And I'll bet Delta doesn't tell you about it in their literature. And really "Whether such inference are justified is irrelevant" is wrong-it is relevant! If it isn't listed in the specs -it ain't there! If I hope and dream my Unisaw has a 24 k gold base, painted gray.... well who is to blame when it isn't? At least nowadays the internet helps with info exchange, people will see your post and avoid that saw, well if you post the model you got they may. If a machine is cheap, there is a reason, and you need to find out why, and then if those reasons are acceptable to you -buy it.
I liked Tool Crib much better before Amazon took over sales, you could at least talk to people who had a clue what you were talking about. And I still think the Amazon one item in each box is a waste.Edward
EE, have you noticed that a lot of online businesses have links that take you right back to Amazon's website? I see a product on XYZ's website with a good price, click on it, then find out that Amazon is processing the transaction. I can't tell who is actually selling the product and where it is warehoused.
I admit to not understanding how Amazon works.
Janet, not to pile on, but if you check the "customer reviews" (clickable link at left hand side of the webpage for the item) at Amazon for that model, you'll find a review warning about the problems/features you mentioned posted 8/2000, plus similar posts since that time. I highly appreciate using Amazon's customer reviews to make my selections of tools, even if i purchase at the local guy. "E-pinions" is another review source, but not as good, and the info on lowest price is often faulty.
Live and learn, eh? I vote for selling it for someone's else Christmas present and getting what you want/need/deserve. And post your experience at Amazon!
Splintie, I did check the reviews at Amazon, but that was before those specific cautions were posted. Did you notice that Doug Haden found misinformation in Amazon's descriptions of Delta saws? My own review, basically what I wrote here, was submitted last night.
Matt, I do not see a valid reason to complain to those who buy or sell "garbage." It is a legitimate market segment and has not affected the availability of high-end products. But if people buy the Pocket Fisherman, only to learn that it was recently redesigned to consist of only a paperclip hook and a spool of thread, I would say they were mislead. And if Ron Popeil responded to their complaints with "You have nobody to blame but yourself," I would say "Isn't that amazing!"
Janet
mislead
Lead is the metalic element. Led is the past tense of lead (pr. leed). Spell checkers are no substitute for care in writing.
Sort of like: I will read that book next after I have red the one I'm working on.
May I congratulate you on a grammatically perfect post.
The fact that it was totally uncalled for and completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand should not be allowed to detract from your considerable achievement.
Do you produce anything Fine Woodwork related?
Do you produce anything Fine Woodwork related?
Of course not. And you?
I did check the reviews at Amazon, but that was before those specific cautions were posted. Did you notice that Doug Haden found misinformation in Amazon's descriptions of Delta saws?
Doug Haden's warning review was posted 8/2000. Please excuse my suggestion to try something about which you were already aware; your review has not been added yet. I was under the misapprehension that this was something that recently happened in your life, not a 2+ year old problem. I personally tend to jump up and down almost instantaneously immediately following getting screwed; a fuse as long as yours is inconceivable to me.
I agree wholeheartedly that Delta's not listing the product on their website is very chicken of them. On the other hand, i wouldn't buy a Pocket Fisherman and expect to do any Fine Fishing.
Don't buy Forest Girl's junk! I have a Shopsmith 5-in-1 machine, however, i could let go for the measly sum of $400...only $80 per function...
Edited 11/9/2002 12:05:22 AM ET by SPLINTIE
Splintie, I don't have that long a fuse!--but I am a procrastinator. We moved across the country last year. Before the move, I used the saw only for basic repairs to the get house ready for sale; after the move I put off uncrating nonessentials. Only recently have I had the time--and garage space--for recreational woodworking. That's when I discovered the problem with the miter gauge and the incompatibility with accessories.
But here's the strange thing: I bought the saw in July 2001. At that time Amazon listed only three reviews: One from an Amazon editor, one from Delta, and the customer review from March 2000 ("Good saw for the money"). I remember having some concern about basing my decision on so few opinions. But unless there was a glitch in my browser (Netscape 4.08), Doug Haden's review certainly wasn't there at the time.
Edited 11/9/2002 1:13:05 PM ET by DWREAD
Weird about those reviews not showing--including yours--but who knows where the electrons go? Write Delta customer service and suggest they take the saw back and apply the full purchase price to an upgrade. Based on my past experience in similar circumstances, i think this stands a good chance. They keep a customer and you unload this albatross--what's not to love? That's got to be more satisfying than working a tough room like this!
If not: dedicated screwed/glued miter gauges out of wood for 90 and 45 degree settings and whatever else. I used to use them all the time until i got my 12" CMS. Foolproof settings, negligible cost, free shipping...
Splintie, there you go again, out-gunning me in the marketing department, LOL!
>"I agree wholeheartedly that Delta's not listing the product on their website is very chicken of them." Delta does have the bench saws on their web site. Can't seem to get that message across here, hmmmm. The fact that the model number is different shouldn't have been all that confusing, IMO.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
The fact that the model number is different shouldn't have been all that confusing, IMO
Why not? Before i posted, i went to Delta's site and typed in the old model number, which Amazon is still using to sell these saws. Nada. How would an entry-level buyer know to type in another number? Or an old hand, for that matter, who doesn't happen to be a catalog connoisseuse?
I still think the bold "Bench Saw" is salient here, and model number, while nice, is not necessary to someone who's done at least some homework on the general category of circular saws. Not picking on Janet -- it just appears that she hadn't really familiarized herself with the basic terminology in this tool category. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
True, I did not understand the difference between a bench saw and a tablesaw. This benchtop saw looks very like a friend's Craftsman tablesaw, and I assumed they were the same type of beastie.
But let me tell you about this weekend's woodworking show (Orange County, CA)! I went to Delta's table told the rep that the Delta 36-545 saw was "not very well made."
Interesting. "Live and learn" applies to companies as well as consumers.
DWREAD-
Are you completely insensitive to feedback? After 40 posts, you still don't recognize that you are responsible for your mistake. People keep trying to tell you that. You keep trying to claim that Delta and/or Amazon are responsible. Again and again and again you keep trying.
Delta made a cheapo saw and you bought it from Amazon for about $100. That's remarkable in itself. Does the saw allow you to rip boards? Does it allow you to crosscut? Can you do miters? Compound angles? Where else in this world can you get a saw that can do all that and more for roughly a tenth of one year's auto insurance premium (in my locality)?
But you can't transform it into a Unisaw, so you think Amazon and Delta should do something. My advice is to take the all-American method of avoiding individual responsibility: Sue the bastards! You deserve to be compensated for your heartache.
Donald, you must have confused the forty posts. I have acknowledged my newbie mistake and explained that my goal is to help others avoid the same. A lawsuit would be unwarranted, as I am not het up (although, if I may say so, you seem to be. Have a Tums).
If I said it cost $99, it was yet another error on my part, for which I apologize and offer you another Tums. Believe me, I would not complain about $99 for a saw that can rip, crosscut, make miters, and compound angles. But if you had paid $160 for a saw generally acknowledged to be worth about $99, you, too, might wish to inform others. Maybe not.
Edited 11/9/2002 10:36:53 PM ET by DWREAD
Donald,
I have to agree with Janet and believe strongly there are several important messages here ...the least of which is not accepting responsibility.
I can also accept the fact that with your talents and experience this is a pretty boring topic to be dwelling on..you probably had sawdust in your diaper (meant with the utmost respect).
The issues that Janet raises are just the very issues that a newbie needs to know about woodworking and the industry...where the trunnions attach, or .01" tolerances in the flatness of the table top ...not so relavent to a newbie.
"Does the saw allow you to rip boards? Does it allow you to crosscut? Can you do miters? Compound angles?" Excellent point..what else should a newbie know...what research did they not do? And why would they spend $650-850 to upgrade to a contractor saw, based on what needs assessment that they would be aware of?
The woodworking industry, in some cases, is coming very close to being as irresponsible as the over the counter vitamin industry. Look at all the confusion when it comes to finnishes...all the claims...hell, ya gotta be a professional with years of experience to seperate out fact from fiction.
Fitfty years ago B&D developed a 'home utility' line of tools. No confusion, no imcompatibilty with add-ons, etc. Delta has plenty of examples of companies to look at who went before them...and the failures re: IBM and PC's.
I think the conversation Janet had with the sales person was most revealing. Delta leveraged it's reputation for a quick buck (mistake #1) and Delta has a policy problem with its warrenty and the source of purchase (mistake #2).
By example, if you bought a Dell PC over the web and then found out it did not accomodate a 3.5 floppy, had a different USB size or would not allow a CDRW to be installed...would you feel it was your fault for not doing your research? ...or would you feel slightly mislead...
Sorry for the rambling...
Well said. I suggest that a more appropriate analogy might be if Dell advertised a downmarket computer with monitor for $100. Advertised specs clearly state that it is slower, has less RAM and a smaller hard drive than current top of the line computers. I buy it and find that it does everything a PC is supposed to do, only slower. I try to upgrade the memory to 512MB, and discover that there are not enough slots for that. How has Dell misled me? How have I misled myself?
I'm certainly no fan of Delta, either for the current quality of their products or their inovation. But they've been a name that's been around a long time (though the company with the name has not had the same continuity), and they advertise a lot. I certainly do not blame any starting woodworker for thinking Delta is a good place to start.
Janet, I hope you had great fun at the WWing show! The conversation with the Delta rep must have been very gratifying, to say the least.
If you are really wanting to make this saw "go away" I'd encourage you to either check with Amazon and see if they'll take it back, or go the route I mentioned earlier and sell it through the paper. Don't let your dissatifaction dissuade you from selling it -- it's an OK saw, just not what you want, right?
Tell us more about your wanderings at the show. Up here in Seattle, I met up with 6 different cyber-friends for lunch and brewskies during the show. Put a few miles on the poor ol' feet and spent just the right amount of money -- enough to have fun and get results, but not so much I regretted it!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
I don't have any problem with keeping this saw. One of my pastimes is sharing knowledge, so that's how I view this purchase--a learning experience to share with other beginners.
I meant to buy something for myself at the woodworking show, but instead we spent most of our time in the kids' workshop. They were teaching kids to use scroll saws, and my daughter loved it.
There was an older gentleman operating a leg-powered scroll saw. I asked him if he could go as fast as the electric saws.
He's had practice with coyotes, but one of the other volunteers said that this woodworker has an amazing eye and can cut anything freehand without needed to sketch it out first.
My neighbor gave me tickets to today's show ("I spent so much yesterday, I don't dare go back today.") so I may return. Oldham/Viper had a booth and a huge selection of router bits. I am tempted to give dovetails a try, but without a particular project in mind, I'm not sure what size and angle to buy. Any suggestions?
Can't help you on the DT bits. Depends on what you're joining. I've disciplined myself not to buy bits until I have a specific use for them. If you want to pick up something to improve your saw, though, you could get a good combo blade -- I put a blade on that little one of mine that cost almost as much as the saw, and it made it cut like a champ. The blade can graduate when you get a bigger saw.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Delta is company and most companies have one goal: make money. The reason Delta has entered the low end market is that it can use its name and sell an item which is inferior to its other products (which are of a high quality if you ask me). Don't complain about a company making money, complain about the people willing to buy garbage, so long as it is inexpensive. Speaking of which, has anyone else noticed a Delta cordless drill? I saw a 12V at Lowe's for like $80. Looks real cheap and makes me wonder about the future of the company.
Amazon is merely a merchant. To save money, they sell products warehoused all over the country. If it were all in one huge warehouse shipping would be too much and profit margins would be too slim (or nonexistent). Also, Amazon may not buy the product from the manufacturer until you buy it from them. In other words, (and this is hypothetical and may or may not be true with regards to Delta) if you buy a table saw from Amazon, the saw may be sitting in the manufacturer's warehouse. Amazon buys the saw only when they know it is sold already, then immediately ships it too you straight from the Delta warehouse. That decreases shipping costs, keeps inventory very low, and also increases turn over rates, all of which help keep Amazon's bottom line healthy. I also believe Amazon handles the online sales for some companies (Tool Crib??).
You mentioned the saw wasn't mentioned in the Delta catalog. If the company doesn't publicize a low cost item it sells, wouldn't that make you wonder if they take pride in the item? The Unisaw and other high end tools get lots of mention, and they are quality items. I really think your only complaint is against yourself for not doing a background check on the saw.
When people 100 years from now see my work, they'll know I cared. --Matt Mulka
Re: "have you noticed that a lot of online businesses have links that take you right back to Amazon's website?"
YES!!! I've tried to find better prices at first, then it got down to finding ANY web price on tools that doesn't go back to Amazon, they own the world, well they are the web front end for it..
Too much power in one company. And this only one item per box thing they have.... what a waste.Edward
janet,
The issues you raise are not reserved for Delta or Amazon only. WhenI bought my table top model two years ago no one mentioned that none of the aftermarket add-ons would not fit..dado blades, jigs, etc. I checked back then but I don't believe any of the so called portables could accomodate add-ons. This experience taught me a big lesson...research before you buy.
However, as a novice, we don't know what standards relative to funtionality we should look for in a TS. Hence, as FG pointed out, the question is asked "which TS?" and quite frankly the answers don't really hit the nail on the head.
Bottom line! Buying those table top saws is a lousy introduction to a hobby...and Delta should know better.
BG, why should Delta "know better"? I don't see that they (or Amazon) have done anything wrong here. The saw model is described, in big bold letters, on Amazon as: Delta 36-545 10" Bench Saw with Stand
What she ordered and what she bought was a bench-top saw with a stand included. I doubt that there's any bench-top saw that uses a standard miter gauge, at least I've never seen one, and a $99 saw isn't going to have the same machining and "fit and finish" as a contractor's saw. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
When I say Delta should know better I'm thinking of it from several different angles. No, your correct, no one should expect the power, durability or fit and finish in a product that costs so little. However, these are bought, I suspect, by newbees and with little more thinking, not necessarily cost, Delta could cultivate a growing relationship with that newbee. Does it really cost more to have dados on the table top saw the same size as they are on the contractors saw or cabinet saw? I certainly did not know when buying my table top saw the disadvantages of having only 6-7" in front of the saw blade as opposed to the 13-14" on a contractor saw or cabinet.
Most importantly, from both a business and safety perspective, that meant none of the jigs that Delta sells would fit my saw..and if they did fit my saw, when I upgraded to better saw which one do you think I would have bought...given the investment in jigs and the like?
Lastly, because Delta, more than others, appears to keep its finger on the pulse of the customer. They seem to incorporate the little design features that make their stuff a little more user friendly and a bit more functional. So I do hold them to a higher standard because they have impressed me that they do try to listen.
In their defense, perhaps those aftermarket jigs should not be used on the table top models..and maybe that is why the odd size of the dado....wouldn't that have been nice to know.
I purchased two of those saws several years ago, before Amazon was even a conception. Both were purchased where I could see them and the price was right. They were throw away items then and they are now. You get what you pay for._DAVID R. WARNER, JR
David, you bought two saws that were unexpandable and incompatible with other Delta products? What are you using now?
A Jet Contractor's saw and a DeWalt portable. I lust for a Laguna but not enough money at the moment. The Jet and DeWalt do good work and I have not burned out the motors on either of them -- which is what happened with the cheap Deltas._DAVID R. WARNER, JR
I guess your experience must rank right up there with Mail Order Brides.<g>
It is this situation that you are in that makes me want to buy major appliances from reputable local dealers and give them the few bucks for that value added service they provide.
BTW, Caveat Emptor suggests due diligence.
At least your are warning others. <g>
No, I am not picking on you! You just feel bad on account of getting a whuppin from Amazon.
Bob
I think part of the confusion stems from the fact that Delta is segregating their product line into Delta Industrial for the professional and advanced hobbyist and Delta Shopmaster for the beginner to intermediate hobbyist. The Shopmaster line (to which your saw belongs) all get new product numbers, so the 36-545 is now known as the TS200LS.
I know it's terribly confusing because at the woodworking show yesterday, I saw the Delta reps had crib sheets with the old and new numbers so even they couldn't keep it straight. I don't know when you visited the Delta website, but this particular model is there now at http://www.deltawoodworking.com/catalog/default.asp?cat_id=2&model_no=TS200LS and I suspect it has been all along under one number or another.
Furthermore, the Delta 2001 Workshop Machinery print catalog includes the saw under the old number and the Delta 2002-2003 Full-Line Catalog has it with the new number. Both print catalogs and the website list the specs for the saw, including the weird-sized miter slot (which according to the literaure is even smaller--3/16" x 5/8"--than what you had mentioned).
As far as the fit and finish is concerned, if the quality (or lack thereof) is at a level you perceive to be unacceptable given your expectations for a saw of this price range, then it would be incumbent upon you to press Amazon or Delta to rectify the situation to your satisfaction (within a reasonable time frame, of course). However, in regards to your suspicions that Delta or Amazon is trying to pull a fast one, it is my opinion that Amazon sold you the saw with the now outdated model number and that you just got caught in the transition.
The fault dear Brutus lies not in Amazon.com but in ourselves... A. E. Neuman
The miter gauge has a lot of slop, and products that correct the fit (such as Fasttrak) cannot be used because....
From an excerpt of Time/Life Books, The Art of Woodworking, Woodworking Machines, page 17:
Shop Tip: Fixing a loose miter gauge.
"To eliminate excessive side-to-side play of the miter gauge in its slot, remove the gauge from the table and place the bar edge-up on a board. Use a ball-peen hammer and a prick punch to strike the edge of the bar in a staggered pattern every inch along it. This will raise bumps on the edge of the bar and result in a tighter fit in the slot. If the fit is too tight , file the bumps down as necessary."
TMarcello, thanks. I have tried that, but there is just too much space to fill. I may try to make my own inserts out of brass.
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