Replies

1. 
   Splintie | Sep 01, 2002 07:27am | #1

   http://www.pioneerlogsystems.com/catalog/Page22.html

   This is a link to blurb on Cabot finishes, which enjoy a very good reputation. But then, so does Sikkens. I've never used either, just going by reports from folks i know and the feedback in the Fine Homebuilding forum (Breaktime), where you might want to do a search and/or ask your question of people who install siding regularly.

   A pigmented instead of a clear finish will wear longer in sun--or anywhere, for that matter. If you want to stick with a clear finish, you may just have to ante up the time and money to deal with that in your climate.  

1. 
   Harry6144 | Sep 02, 2002 05:35am | #2

   Have installed cedar siding for over ten years, including shakes and boards.  If you do not use a high quality paint--and there are many water=based which work well-you will have extra work .  Some pigmented stains last longer than others, but none as well as paint.  One other major point is to buy quality.  I know  we all know it but in the case of a house, as you are experiencing, the cost of the material is negligible in comparison to the time involved.  If you go with a clear finish you will be very lucky to get much more than three years at the best.  And that is with all the best conditions.    You  also might want to check with the Cedar manufacturer's.  I can't place the address now but they were invaluable when I was looking for answers.  Seems to me the  same goes for finishes.  Do your homework and compare.  Ask other people in the area what works.  As we all know people love to talk and give advice. 

2. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 02, 2002 06:05am | #3

   pancakehill:

      You've got some good advice here. I too, have cedar siding on my home. Harry is correct about the water-based paint, even though I personally like to use oil-based pigmented stain that is transparent. I have to re-stain reverantly ever 4 years. I can get away with 5, but I have personally done it ever 3 or 4 for the last 16 years. I like the wood-grain showing through so I use the transparent. It can be done in a cedar color similar to what the clear looks like. (But not quite as natural). I stayed away from clear for the same reason you posted. Take Harry's advice and use quality whatever you use.  I hand-brush it on after pressure washing throughly. I brush till it won't take any more. When a wet film is left I go on the the next board and do the same. When I finish that one go back and back-brush any standing stain on the previous. Yep, it's a pain. Takes me about 6 weeks of spare time and week-ends to pressure wash, stain and trim. Just did it in May and the first two weeks of June. The good news is I can forget the pain till 2006. Maybe the cedar-angel will turn it into brick. My luck, a pumpkin is more likely! grin>>>

   sarge..jt

1. 
   Harry6144 | Sep 02, 2002 04:50pm | #4

   Sarge is right about the heavy pigmented oil-based stains.  For customer satisfaction and expense I suggest paint, but if they want stain it will not last as long.  For methjod which works well we spray everything and back brush immediately.  You can use the cheapest spray gun available, since its only function is to supply material, and on a house this will save you many hours compared to dipping your brush into a can.  Also, the spray can be directed to the edges of the shingles , which helps to evn out the brushing effort.  On new construction I have homes that have six years on them and from the street look great.  They really do need a new coat now, but the protection factor has been excellent.  This came from one coat of prime, which can be top coat color thinned out 10-20%, followed by two final coats.  I generally  tint all prime coats to as close to final coat as possible.

   Final comment.  Neighbor had extreme difficulty when he used oil-based Zinnser as prime on 50 year old yellow pine siding.  Zinnser came out several times, reapplied prime, and the paint still peeled off within four months.  For many along NC coast we thought it may have been due to hurricanes and low pressure, since this was atypical, but not isolated.  Finally went with all water based primers and topcoats.  Two years and no peeling. 

   Harry

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 02, 2002 07:41pm | #5

   Harry:

      The professional house painters in my area ( Atlanta ) use the same method on spray and back-brush. I do my own and prefer the brush it on myself method as I can afford to take the time. My siding is in excellent condition after 16 years. My neighbors opinions anyway. Ha.. I will add that I have many hardwood and large pine surrounding the house so I don't have to fight the UV factor as much as an open area constantly exposed to sun-light. I do pressure wash the 2nd yr. after I stain and then p/w of course when I re-apply.

      N.C. coast, huh.. I used to surf and pier fish on Topsail Island in the 70's and 80's. It got pretty crowded after that with condo's everywhere that was pristine. I know you have caught more than your share of hurricanes in the last 15 years or so. Heard through the grapevine "Barnacle Bill's" and that pier came down on one. Lot of memories on that island. Hope to make it back up some Oct. when the "drum are running". Always liked going after shark with light tackle, also. Guess I still got some of that "Wild-eyed southern boy in me"....grin>>

   sarge..jt

1. 
   Harry6144 | Sep 02, 2002 10:12pm | #6

   Pressure washing is important, even if you are not going to stain or paint, it should be done every year.  The accumulated dirt/debris/mold/mildew will magnify the problem.  As some may know the clear coat of a car will last much longer if regularly washed.  The dirt seems to intensify the degradation due to UV sunlight.

   I am in Carolina Beach, but know where uyou were talking about.  Rode out Hurricane Fran with 135mph, and the eye went directly over my home.  It was quite a sight, but I'd give it up to never have another hurricane.  We had 5 in three years, all Cat3 or better(worse).  We lost all of our piers, but two rebuilt.  Topsail is in deep trouble with erosion. 

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 03, 2002 12:11am | #7

   Harry:

      Thanks for the tip on every year on the pressure wash. I have always borrowed one; but I bought one (2400 psi Devilbiss,however you spell it.ha..) this spring b-4 I stained. I wondered if you could do it too often.? That settles that doubt. Understand about the car wash, etc. Been working around that business off and on since 70.

      Sorry to hear about Topsail and all the piers. I bet those winds didn't shake The USS North Carolina docked there in Wilmington. Been on that about 10 times and still can't get enough. Still love to come back up that way someday in the future. If you happen to see a dummy on a Harley with a 9 ft. surf rod sticking up off the back, flag him down and I'll say hello!

   Have a good one..

   sarge..jt

2. 
   DennisS | Sep 03, 2002 06:59am | #8

   Sarge -

   We just bought a new place up north that's kinda "in the woods" so to speak. The house is 1979 vintage with all bevel cedar siding that's in great shape but I don't think it's been re-stained (existing stain is semi-transparent I believe, no clue on brand or otherwise) since it was initially installed. We're in the Pacific NW as you probably know. The house faces south/southeast and the southern exposure is pretty severe as most of the trees on that side have been cleared.

   The question is, do you have to re-stain your entire house every three/four years or do you focus on the southern exposure and get more life out of the other walls? Our north side has a somewhat greenish tint to it (grin) 'cus on that side we have a multitude of cedar, hemlock and firs (quite large) which contribute considerable pollen each year. I realize the whole house needs to be re-finished but was wondering, if I decide to go with stain to preserve the more natural look of the cedar, will I be fighting the entire house or can I relax (a bit) and figure on addressing the south side on a more frequent basis and get by with the others like every other time?

   Lazy in Bellevue ....

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 03, 2002 07:48am | #9

   Dennis:

      I'll see if I can remember the questions you ask. If the house is in bad shape now, you'll have to bite the bullet and start from ground zero. 1st- Do or get someone to pressure wash it throughly. If the mildew is really bad you need to spray with chlorox just before you hit it with the pressure gun. Watch the mildew roll off immediately. Hopefully, it hasn't penetrated too deep from neglect. Be careful though, if it stays on too long it can damage wood fiber. Also, wear long sleeve shirts, mask and some eye protection. I have gotten bleach burns more than I care to think about.

      Read my method as to hand brushing it on. It wouldn't hurt that first time at least. Catch Harry's method as he is a pro painter and they spray and back-roll. I have hand-brushed from 3rd year forward as I purchased the house 16 years ago. Mine is in the best shape for cedar that I've seen. That's not bragging. I have definitely put a lot of work in getting and keeping it that way from the start. I do the entire house with oil-base every 3 to 4. Sometimes it can go a couple of years more by most peoples standards. I suppose I set my standards high as I believe if you take care of your equipment (house in this case) it takes care of you. Not that I'm detailish, grin<!

      Once you get it in reasonable condition, you might be able to get away with every other time. You'll just have to wait and observe what happens in your house's case. Throw rule of thumb out and what so and so did with his. OBSERVE AND SEE WHAT YOUR HOUSE DOES WITH YOUR CONDITIONS IN THAT AREA. Observation will be the best advice you get as your siding will tell you exactly what you will need to do!!!!!! There are no promises with cedar. I love the look, but it's hard work. If you don't mind the work, you're OK. If you don't have the time, you might consider pressure washing and having aluminum siding installed. OHHH!!! I know, you like rustic look as I. Well, start looking for deals on ladders and the related hardware...ha.. Cedar requires a lot of care if you want the grain showing. Otherwise you can paint over it and reduce your labor efforts. Paint will last much longer. Again, see Harry's comments. He does them every day, well almost every day. He just sent me an e-mail to let me know the drum will make their  run on the NC coast in OCT.

      Bottom line, get the siding in the best condition you can the 1st time at least and then go from there! OR, just grab a surf rod and get down to the Outer Banks and we'll drop a line. Might even tag a shark on that light tackle and then we can have a real good ole time!! Ha.....

   Good luck and shout if in need..

   sarge..jt

   P.S. This looks like Margaret Mithcell's "Gone With The Wind" Did I do another novel here?! grin>

1. 
   DennisS | Sep 03, 2002 05:01pm | #10

   Sarge -

   Thanks for the (detailed -grin-) note. I realize that each situation, weather, exposure, etc., requires its own maintenance schedule and seeing is believing. I just wondered what yours was.

   Aluminum sideing? I don't think so. hahahaha.

   Personally I don't mind long posts so long as they say something. And yours usually do.

   Don't fish, unfortunately. But that's another thread.

   Weather has turned to liquid sunshine for the week so guess I can rationalize working in the shop for a few days. Oh-goodie!

   Dennis in Bellevue WA

   [email protected]

1. 
   RANGERP75R | Sep 03, 2002 05:31pm | #11

   Dennis:

      Weather great here too! I had the First Lady download this pic taken late last August. This is three years exposure. Sorry, it didn't come out lighter on download. Have a great day as I'm off to work shortly!

   sarge..jt

   
3. 
   BOBABEUI | Sep 05, 2002 11:05pm | #12

   Ok I will add my two cent's here we go;

   WHAT EVER YOU DO NOT, I REPEAT DO NOT PRESSURE WASH THE SIDING! ALSO  DON'T USE CLORINE BEACH EVER, YOU WILL DESTORY THE LIGINE (the stuff that holds the wood fibers together).

    Yes I would agree that the siding has to be really clean to start the refinishing process, I have used Wolman's Deck and Fence cleaner and brightner works great and does not every plant in sight.

   I have talked with Cabot techincal support about their products, they without question tell you the longest lasting (realitive) product they sell is the LATEX OVT product. Use one coat of the Problem solver Oil Based primer two coats of OVT Latex. Cabot says the stain job should last 5 to 7 years depending on exposure...

   I have exposure like you can't imagine,  so far 4 years and the finish looks pretty good (much better than two coats of Oil based OVT from the prior job)