Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | May 10, 2006 09:49pm | #1

   Define refinishing, what kind of work is involved?

   John W.

2. 
   John_D | May 10, 2006 11:39pm | #2

   Depends on your objective, to be fair/generous to your mother's friend, or to make it worth your while.

   If you're trying to make sure you're coming out of it profitable, all you have to do is figure out how long it'll take you, pick an hourly rate, and give a quote.

   If you want to charge an amount that's comparable to what pro's in your area would charge, you might get an idea here but I think these rates vary rather wildly across the country.  If you're trying to give a fair and customary rate, include in your computation the fact that the best and most experienced usually charge a bit more.  If you're going to be learning on the job, you might feel it's right to charge a bit less.

   My goal is for my work to outlast me.  Expect my joinery to get simpler as time goes by.
3. 
   Ricks503 | May 10, 2006 11:48pm | #3

   refinishing or refacing? - BIG differance.

   1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1
1. 
   Aubster | May 11, 2006 03:25am | #4

   It is differently a refinishing job. She just wants me to sand her cabinets and doors, then restain and seal them. No re building of anything.

   Thanks for your suggestions

1. 
   Ricks503 | May 11, 2006 06:18am | #5

   Even a straight refinishing job can be hightly involved.  If you are restaining, you may be removing the doors and drawers, stipping them (and all that entails)  and then sanding  and staining and sealing.  How about the face frames and sides of cabinets? Is there an island involved?  What about the interior of the cabinets? How much will the materials cost? Do you need to buy any tools? What type of sealer/topcoat will you be using? 

   For materials, you can see what the can says for coverage, then compute the amount you need and add at least 10% more in.  If you will be buying any tools or equipment ( even brushes and cleaning supplies - think tarps, painters tape, thinner, ...) that is the easy part.  After that, only you have any idea of how long the project will take as far as number of hours and this is where things can get sticky.  You can come up with a rate in your mind, multiply that by the hours and add in the materials cost - that is what you charge.  If you want to be seen to being fair or giving them a break, you can quote the materials cost and then give them an hourly rate and an ESTIMATE of the expected time to completion. If you finish faster - they save money. If things come up and it takes longer - you are not losing money. If you go the latter route, you will need to keep excellent track of your time - including any time not charging for - like going to get some more rags, smoke, grab a drink or taking a break and gabbing with the "client".1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

2. 
   charlesstanford | May 11, 2006 03:14pm | #6

   That's a bigger job than you think.  Much bigger.

3. 
   jimmy | May 13, 2006 12:29am | #12

   Agee with Charles...This job is one whole heck of alot more work than you think...Lots of hours and tedious work.  You may end up hatin' life on this project....

4. 
   Dave45 | May 14, 2006 01:38am | #14

   Take a GOOD look at those cabinets before you even think of bidding.  If they're "typical" cabinets, they're veneered MDF or particle board and that veneer is as thin as tissue paper.  Get a little too aggressive with your sander, and you'll find yourself back here asking how to hide a sand through - lol.

   P.S.  If anyone knows how to hide sand throughs, I'm all ears - lol.

1. 
   Aubster | May 14, 2006 06:29am | #15

   lol I'll remeber that.

    

1. 
   charlesstanford | May 14, 2006 03:23pm | #16

   Surely by now you've figured out you'd better stay away from this one...

    

4. 
   mudman | May 11, 2006 07:15pm | #7

   Refinishing is an art in itself. Profesional furniture restorers are VERY expensive. Refinishing (stripping, sanding, filling, staining, finishing) kitchen cabinets is only worth it if the cabinets are of some historical value. Now days you can get some good looking cabinets installed for $3,000. REFACING is typically less than $1000, and that includes new doors. You are talking about damn near a week of horrible and frustrating work. Having said that you will learn a lot about finishing and will get a taste of working in the trades.

   Let us know what you decide.

   Mike

1. 
   Ricks503 | May 11, 2006 10:13pm | #8

   When I went to redo my last kitchen, We decided to sand the face frames and repaint and to replace the doors and cheap hinges - The cost of buying the doors and hinges ran about $75+ per door.  I bought some white oak lumber and some 1/2" maple ply sheets and made my own doors. Cost per door (including buying nice blum euro hinges ( some 120* and some 170* ) after making and finishing ran about $25 and I got a nicer door made just the way that DW liked.   For the face frames, we did sand and repaint.   Word of warning on stripping or sanding and repainting - do a lead test - that can be hazarous waste to dispose of and can be a harzard to your health if you breath it in.1 - measure the board twice, 2 - cut it once, 3 - measure the space where it is supposed to go        4 - get a new board and go back to step 1

1. 
   byhammerandhand | May 12, 2006 02:03am | #9

   The other thing to consider is travel time back and forth between each step as it needs dry/cure time, and time spent masking and demasking interiors, countertops, appliances, floor, walls, soffits, etc.If your client wants new hardware, there's time picking it out and then trying to get the holes and mortises to all fit.It can also easily take half a day to a day to R&R the doors, drawer fronts, and hardware, plus two round trips.

5. 
   nikkiwood | May 12, 2006 05:24am | #10

   Would you count yourself as reasonably expert in matters of finishing/refinishing?

   If not, heed the advice of others in this thread. What seems simple can too often end up being very complicated (in order to get the result the client wants).

   In any case, before striking a deal, I would urge you to take a small door or a drawer front, and try out whatever technique you have in mind.

   I have done a whole lot of this kind of thing over the years, and what strikes me most, is how different one project is from another. Almost always, you have to find the right combination of materials, stains, techniques to achieve the look you want.

   ********************************************************
   "It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."

   John Wooden 1910-

6. 
   cowtown | May 12, 2006 06:07am | #11

   once you start a job like this, to me you take on the obligation to complete it. Ergo, you gotta know have an almost total grasp of the project before you even start.

   What happens WHEN..

   -you find out that the original finish was so damaged that oils have penetrated the wood, (particularly around handles) and the wood is permanently discoloured, and you is stuck there with doors that you cannot get to look good. Do you then proceed at the risk of having the job rejected, with perhaps no payment for all yur efforts, or drop it right there and then, leaving a disgruntled client

   -you find out that was was once a nice evenly stained set of cabinet doors had originally been finished with a shading laquer, and was perhaps even made of multiple species (so-called"white wood" construction, maple, birch, etc, which doesn't really matter if a shading or colour tinted laquer is used) You may find yerself suddenly involved in a situation where you have to spray stain, AND use a shading laquer to get a presentable product. That's a lot of cost in equipment and learning curve if you ain't been there and done that yet.

   If you are gonna spray, are you gonna end up spraying in the home on the frames, and is yer client gonna tolerate it. Do you have liability insurance if you should (heaven forbid!!) blow the place up when solvent laden fumes hit the pilot lights? Or, can you do face frames etc without that risk.

   So there you are, you got all the problems solved, and the client decides she wants an additional matching cabinet. Now you gotta match new wood with wood that has aged, Not an insurmountable problem, but one which might come up, and have to be dealt with.

   It's one thing to spray furniture with small guns, but my experience is large panels (beside fridges etc) need larger guns, or else the finish looks cheesy, with streaks of different texture.

   I dunno what you've refinished in the past, but even if you have done a set of furniture, it's a whole nuther ball of wax when you get 20 or thirty cabinet doors side by each which all have to look the same. And you do have the space to lay out a whole kitchen of doors doncha?

   Of course I cannot appreciate what yer experience or skills is, but I would respectfully beg off unless yer equiped and experienced enuf that you can take on the challenge.

   Let me suggest that you source out a cabinet door mfgr and if they don't finish their product, they generally have a connection with someone who does.

   If yer curious to know how much to charge, just ask her how much she paid when the job was finished.

   I remember the first set of cabinet doors I did. I only revisit that scenario with misgivings. I ate my shirt on that job, only to have their cleaning lady spill oven cleaner on the doors within two months.

   Again, go there if you want to assume the risk, - you won't find me bidding against ya.

   Eric
   in Cowtown

1. 
   jimmy | May 13, 2006 12:31am | #13

   yep, yep, yep times 10 or so....