My wife bought some cheap chairs to supplement the ones in our dining set. When anyone sits on them the stretcher between the front and back legs slips out and the chair gets very weak. I’m afraid someone will get hurt when this junk finally collapses. The stretcher tenons are round and fit into mortises on the legs. Can I glue them in place? Would that strengthen the chair or just break the leg/stretcher? Should I use hide glue or will “Titebond” work. Should I drill and screw to add strength? Thanks in advance for any guidance.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
north,
something i thoroughly dread is when i am asked to repair chairs. very often the abuse is extensive. i call it the "chair eating itself". this happens when the joints are beginning to give out but the chair remains in use. things get even worse when someone without much skill attempts to repair the chair by the liberal application of screws, nails and glue. the one thing you may have going for you is no one has done any "repairs", thus far.
all that aside, were i going to do this work, i would tighten loose tenons by wrapping veneer around them prior to re-gluing and clamping the joint. also you may be able to study the chairs to determine where you might apply a glue block here and there. sometimes these are absent where the seat meets the apron.
eef
The tenons should be glued, it's the glue that holds the chair together.
I wouldn't use screws, that way lies trouble down the line.
From your description I sounds like the legs are splayed rather that vertical so when there is a weight on the chair the legs slide apart from each other.
Are the tenons a good tight fit? If not you can try "padding" them out with a veneer strip or a wood shaving when you glue them up.
I also suggest that you examine where the legs join the seat. Is all Ok here? Can you strengthen the joint with a block?
You could use epoxy to glue them back together. It sticks to almost anything and has some gap filling properties.
If the chairs are cheap and you don't mind the looks. I have wrapped the chairs legs with wire to hold them together. The looks aren't good but it works.
Domer
epoxy is the strongest adhesive but can be hard to disassemble later on - and if it is the 5 minute kind - you have to clamp up quickly - no time to re-adjust anything.
If the chairs aren't keepers - I would use epoxy and hope they last as long as you plan to keep them
SA
I agree with the person a couple comments up.. look at where the leg fastens to the seat.. most likely this has loosened up.. if this is a round tenon also, this will need to be shimmed as well... If I planned to keep these a long time, I would cut a slot across the end of the tenon, insert a wedge, and drive them back in..
If they only had to last a short time, I would disassemble clean all the old glue out, and use a polyurethane glue....
It has been my experience that you need to think of glue joint repairs just like painting repairs. The repair will be only as good as the prep. You need to remove "all" or as much of the previous adhesive as possible before you begin the repair. Wood glue works by soaking into the wood fibers, swelling them, and hardening leaving the fibers in this "swollen" state, hence a tight joint. Wood glue doesn't stick to cured wood glue, and can't penetrate into the fibers through that old glue. Even epoxy won't adhere to old glue as well as a good clean surface, and if the adhesive was the cause of the original failure then any old adhesive would be "suspect" to fail thereby making the epoxy fail over time.
The cleaning process (sanding, paring, whittling,...) virtually guarantees a loose fitting joint when you're done, but if you skip the cleaning process the repair generally doesn't last over time.
After thoroughly cleaning the joint use thin strips as others have mentioned to obtain a tight fitting joint again during reassembly. Wood glue so does not fill gaps.
If the joint was loose for a long time as previously mentioned, then generally the hole, or tenon, or both have worn so that shimming may not do the trick.
For a "permanent" repair I rebuild the tenon. It sounds laborious but its really pretty simple. Measure the maximum diameter of the hole, and the length of the old tenon (or depth of the hole) and purchase a slightly larger hardwood dowel from the hardware store. Don't do what I usually do and make several trips to the hardware store!, so while you're there purchase a Forstner or twist drill bit the same size as the dowel if you don't already have one. Don't try to use a spade bit unless you're repairing a tenon that's much smaller than stretcher, since there's a good chance you'll split the end of stretcher when drilling. The Forstner bit works best on the stretcher part, and a twist drill bit works best for the hole. Bits are expensive, but even if you have to buy an expensive 1" or larger drill bit to do the drilling, it's still a fairly inexpensive, permanent, and strong repair after you've fix just a few chairs.
Cut the tenon off of the end of stretcher, and drill a hole into the end of the stretcher, centered on the freshly cut-off tenon. If you're using twist drill bits it's easier to insure you're centered up correctly if you start with a much smaller bit and then keep drilling using increasingly larger sizes until you get to the proper fit for the dowel. Drilling as straight as you can by eye is generally close enough, unless odd angles are involved. Go slow, since the "wall thickness" at the end of the stretcher may be thin, depending on the taper at the end of the stretcher when you get up close to the size of you dowel. Go plenty deep enough into the stretcher to gain enough "wall thickness" on the stretcher to avoid the stretcher from simply splitting after the repair. Use your best judgment, but two or three times the diameter of the dowel is usually enough. Drill out the hole in the leg as well to fit the dowel. Glue the dowel into the stretcher and cut it to length. I usually cut them 1/8" less than the depth of the hole. Let the new tenon dry in the stretcher for ~30 minutes, then reassemble to the chair.
When you're done the repair will probably be stronger than the original joint was when it was new and should be virtually invisible to detect.
You can use this method to repair just about any type of broken or loose joints. You can even repair broken spindles with this method if you're lucky enough to have good clean break. Most of the time spindles break in the area of a small diameter of the turning which makes it easier to "hide" the repair.
Good luck,
RexJ
Thanks everyone for the great ideas. In reality, I don't think the stretchers have been glued into the legs. I've turned several of the chairs over to "pop" the tennons back in and I've never seen evidence of glue.
Problems like these are the reason I don't go furniture shopping with my wife any more. After seeing what's offered I'm convinced that, like many imported goods, there is no such thing as quality furniture from furniture stores anymore. I have tried to show SWMBO the lack of quality in this cheap junk. I think I'll get her out in the shop to "help" me. Perhaps then she'll understand.
use duct tape.
But the chairs aren't
But the chairs aren't quacked...
They sounded pretty quacked to me.
"...out to the shop to help..."
good lord man, are you mad?!? during those times when the repairs are easy, would you have her know this, huh? once she has penetrated into the inner sanctum of the shop she might become curious and such curiosity may lead to her finding out that not ALL fixes and repairs are as involved as the current one. your status as hero/knight/fix-it-guy could diminish, bad idea dude.
eef
You are right, what the he11 was I thinking??? I've got an old sheet of iron and a sledge in the shop. I'll start banging it at 6:30 AM tomorrow morning and cussing really loud. Then I'll make six or seven trips to "the hardware store" and fortify myself with some liquid refreshment. After an afternoon of pounding and cussing, just before supper, I'll glue up the chairs, stagger into the house "exhausted" and ask for my pipe and slippers. Yeah, that ought to do it...
if you have to ask for your pipe + slippers - something is still wrong
SA
Just be careful you don't get
Just be careful you don't get your wallet stolen at the hardware store. ;-)
http://forums.finewoodworking.com/fine-woodworking-knots/woodworkers-cafe/warning-male-woodworkers
North, Maybe cut some slits into the Tenon's and then make some thin wedges. Shoot them all up with glue and clamp them tight to be a bit larger then the mortised hole.. (after cleaning the holes up and such) be better if you can enlarge the mortise a bit on the inside so that it cant come out. Be sure not to align the tenon wedge so that it splits the leg itself, Ie you want it level to the ground .vs. running N/South with the leg grain.
Rich
I reworked the chairs on Friday. They are very poor quality and were built in Malaysia. They are parawood, (i.e.: rubberwood)
Most of the screws, (screws???!!!) were either loose or missing altogether. I tightened everything up and pulled and pushed on the legs/stretchers. Any that were loose popped out right away, with no evidence of glue having been applied. On three of the chairs the mortices/tennons were not worn or damaged. So, I used epoxy to secure them, explaining to SWMBO that when they break they are firewood.
One chair had a broken tennon at the top of the leg. This is not going to be repaired, but will be returned under warranty. The new chair will be inspected, tightened and glued as required.
I didn't realize we were buying "kit" furniture. But having experienced the overall decline in the quality of products ranging from woodworking equipment to socks I guess I shouldn't be surprised.
I guess I'll have to eat dinner standing up from now on...
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled