I’m breaking ground this week for my 850 sqft shop. I thank those of you who have given me advice – either in response to my queries, or as suggestions to others who’ve posed questions. I’m now trying to settle on the quality of lights. I’m going with 4 foot 2-tube T8 fixtures. I can get cheapos for under $10 at Blowes. They are rated as operating at a minimum of 50 degrees, and have a narrow reflector hood. For $30 I can bet cold-weather fixtures with a wide reflector. I assume I will keep the shop above 50 in the winter. So, why buy the expensive ones? My carpenter says he uses the cheapos in his unheated garage, and they work fine, though they take a few minutes to warm up. Since I need about 20 fixtures, the difference in price is roughly the cost of the drill press I’m looking at. Any personal experiences?
Thanks.
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
I have one nearly 30 year-old fluorescent unit from Sears. I have a number of generic "shop lights" (two-tube, 4'). I think the bulbs in the Sears unit are original, and it always lights. The cheapos go through bulbs at a prodigious rate and often fail to light when the temps are closing in on 50 F, OR in the summer when the humidity is high. They are on my list to upgrade if for no other reason than I dislike having to chuck the tubes as we don't have a recyc program for them.
YMMV
thats because your oldy still has a magnetic ballast....
I don't care for the electronic ones either,but large users want to save energy so ........ watt-miser lamps and smart electronic ballasts are the norm .....
its my experinece that you should check the operating range of the ballast in the fixtures you want to buy.....most fixtures will operate ...but
sometimes a cheaper fixture has ballasts with a higher low temp rating...
..the lamps will light but then the ballast will constantly try to "start" if the temp is too low shortening the life of the lamp
and 50 deg seems a little chilly to me for fluorescents......
the better situation would be a high output ballast and clear sleeves around the tubes ...which help the lamp warm up faster and contain any glass should one shatter
also check the sound rating of the fixtures ....some low temp ballasts are noisy since the are mainly used outside..you should see this info on the carton label
I have the old style in my unheated bathroom down in the basement. In the winter, I am usually out of the shower and onto my work schedule when the light comes on. I sometimes forget the switch on and don't find the light on till late at night. By the way, I have T5 fluorescents in my shop. They take a lot of elect at 54 watts per tube but they sure give a lot of light.
I recommend going with a unit that has a shield over the lamps. In my basement shop I only have barely 7' to the joists above and the first time you flip a sheet of ply or a stick of lumber around you will be glad not to be showered with shards of glass. I used the 48" T8 shoplight fixtures with the metal grid from HD. They have held up pretty well and those grids have served well a few times now. Building new you will probably go high enough not to be an issue, but you never know.
Andy
"It seemed like a good idea at the time"
I suggest you bypass the big box, go to a local electrical distributor, purchase twin 96" fixtures with standard ballasts, but not the bottom of the line. I'd use daylight Phillips single pin bulbs (buy them by the full box, same distributor). This is my choice after fumbling around for over 40 years. The bulb life is great, start-up @ 40F isn't too bad, output is great, color is correct, and the noise is imperceptible. If you get a noisey one, the distributor will usually swap out the ballast at no cost. Don't expect quiet fixtures from anywhere else, and those 48" "shop-lights" are the worst. Stay away from cool white or other selections ... use daylight for natural colors. Cycling on-off several times a day, every day, and bulb life in my shop is 5+ years. I understand that burning time is NOT the enemy of fluorescent, cycling on-off IS. This is fairly good performance, in my book.
Additionally, I drilled a 3/8 hole through each enclosure, near the power end and installed a canopy (pull string) switch in every one, enabling me to tailor the lighting to the area being used (that day).
John in Texas
Edited 2/27/2006 2:47 pm by tailsorpins
We have 15- 4' fixtures in our basement on 4 separate circuits. They all have electronic ballasts and don't hum or flicker (we keep the basment at 60 deg.) The workshop circuit has 10 and it interferes with the stereo and TV - something to consider.
Our builder said the workshop has lighting like an operating room, but it beats being dim. I bought a box of Phillips "warm white" tubes that appear better than the std. cool white; most of the twin fixtures only have one tube - it's the dispersion you're after. I read a FWW article from a few years back to help layout the scheme.
BTW, I elected NOT to go with the shields that you mentioned. I get better "cross-lighting" w/o and haven't busted a bulb yet (until tomorrow?).
Good luck
Thanks one and all for the education you've given me in fluorescent fixtures. Based on what I've learned, I'm going to go with the fixtures listed in the Classified section by Sewerman.
Woodlark -
My electrician recommended the Hi output T8 FL. fixtures which I bought into. Electronic ballasts. The nice thing is when I go out to the shop in 30deg temps the lights come on instantly if not at total full output.
This is not a problem for you since you intend to maintain 50deg or more temps in your shop. My complaint with these electronic ballasts is that they produce a huge amount of interference in the wiring in the shop such that I can't use an FM radio for 'sounds'. AM seems to work fine but not FM.
This makes no sense to me at all since these kinds of fixtures are used extensively in offices and elsewhere where lots of electronic equipment is in use. Niether my electrician nor any of the electrical supply houses around here can explain why I have this 'problem'. I know it's the lights 'coz when I turn them off, the radio plays quite OK. Even with a battery powered radio they interfere. So ....
If you go the T8 fixtures be sure to verify that the ballasts don't produce interference with electronic equipment, eg an FM radio in the event that you, like me, enjoy having some background music while you work.
Electronic ballasts cause a lot of radio interference. Have you checked your grounding. That could certainly cause the interference. Also when considering T8 fluorescents, don't forget that for 32 watts, you get a lot more light than with the 40 watts you use on the T12.
I read the other posts to your query. We are working on similar problems. To solve mine I picked up a bargain yesterday at The Depot: 14-inch wide 4-bulb 4-foot fluorescent fixtures with clear prismatic diffuser (286-750). They have 2 ballasts rated at 50 deg for 40W tubes & 60 deg for 34W tubes. Must be discontinued. If they will work for you, better hurry! I got the last at one store. They are probably too bright. I learned long ago that I could buy 4-bulbers for the same $$ as wide 2-bulbers. If it is too bright, just disconnect one ballast. If the first ballast ever goes out, connect the other. The cost of 6- or 8-foot fixtures & bulbs is prohibitive. If this is a hobby pursuit for you too, economy probably matters more than buying the best. In my case, if it is too cold, I don't work in my shop. Glue won't endure those temps anyway. So far, bulb life is not an issue. But the fixture is not the whole story.
Someone else built my shop. Walls are all bare wood products of some kind & not white. There are many (too many) narrow 2-bulb fluorescent in the ceiling or hanging from rafters. I have a few incandescent bullet fixtures here & there. That works everywhere except where I do fine hand work, sanding, or finishing. I formerly did that with daylight at my open garage door. I can't do that now. I am modifying an area in the shop by adding the HD fixtures & painting the walls & ceiling white. I don't know if you will have a ceiling or open framing. If you want good light or reasonable heating, you might want to consider a ceiling of some kind as well as white walls. White pegboard is the best wall material I can think of.
When I moved into my present shop, there were warm-light bulbs in all fixtures which are mounted end-to-end in rows. It was dismal! I disconnected the ballast in every other fixture & put in daylight bulbs. I can see much better now.
Tell us how it turns out.
Cadiddlehopper
Thanks all for the input. I bought the 16 Simkar 2-tube T8 fixtures Sewerman advertised in the classifieds. He included a box of 34 Watt tubes. Half my 24x36 shop has an 8' ceiling with a storage loft above. I'll hang 8 of the strip lights in the rafter bays, and paint the bays white. 2 more will go in the loft. That leaves 6 for the rest of the shop which has a vaulted ceiling going up to 12 or 13 feet; I'll need a few more lights, with reflectors, and hang them at about 10'. Based on people's input, I plan on sticking with electronic ballast T8 fixtures.
I hope that works well for you. Must have been a bargain. I already have so many T12s that I don't want to complicate my life with another size and type even though they have advantages. I read a post somewhere claiming T8s @ 32 Watts are brighter than T12s @ 40 Watts. The numbers I read yesterday right on the packages stated T12s gave 3150 lumens vs. 2650 lumens for T8s. That is a smidgeon more efficient, but it is not brighter. Is the manufacturer mistaken about his product?Cadiddlehopper
Clem (if I may)Yesterday I replaced the Halogen fixtures running down the center of my shop at 9'. I bought T8 Sylvania 8' strip lights (T8 technology is not available in 8' bulbs, so these are 2 4's in one fixture; 4 bulbs) Price - $44 plus bulbs at Lowes.I turned them on and was almost blinded. Those things really put out the lumens! Hope it's not too bright.JerryP.S. I learned that the number (8, 12, etc.) refers to the diameter in 1/8"s. Now I'm ready for Jeopardy.
I bought T8 Sylvania 8' strip lights (T8 technology is not available in 8' bulbs, so these are 2 4's in one fixture; 4 bulbs) Price - $44 plus bulbs at Lowes.Do you how good they are in cold weather such as -20?
I hit Google for "Sylvania T8, cold weather start". There was too much specific info to pass on but some of it seemed pertinent for your situation. Give it a try.JerryI hope you don't plan on working in your shop at 20 below!! My name is Frost, but that is extreme.
Edited 3/8/2006 3:12 pm ET by Jfrostjr
You can always work with safety sunglasses I suppose.I had a home built in late 1978. I moved out in 1991. I had fluorescent fixtures all over the house. Only one pair of bulbs had to be replaced during those 12-13 years.Where I now live (because it has such a large shop building) was as dismal as a cave until I put up fluorescents. I haven't done that everywhere. I bought 4-bulbers, but disconnected one ballast. Still lots of light. My shop has about 50 2-bulb fixtures which are quite old. Some have failed. I figure I may need a spare ballast sometime. Besides, the 4-bulbers cost the same as 2-bulbers in the style I had to buy. They had to be wide enough to cover a pre-existing hole in the ceiling.Good luck on Jeapordy!Cadiddlehopper
Hello,Numbers aside, T8's are (obviously) smaller in diameter than T12's. A rep from Philips explained in a lighting lecture I attended that a smaller source of light will give "more" light because it is more concentrated. It gets a little academic from there, but imagine a more concentrated point source of light.
Ultimately the amount of light falling on the work or work surface is the important thing as far as brightness. If I remember correctly from a previous life, architectural specifications for office illumination state what what the level of light in the work area must be when the job is finished. That level may be achieved in more than one way. Depending on what a woodworker needs to see at various times, such as when applying a finish coat, may require a different light sources than diffused light from a gang or string of fixtures. Both of these considerations are quite practical and not academic. If the required level and quality of light can be achieved using fewer kilowatt hours, that is what we would like to do. It is also claimed that some of the newer fluorescents pollute less when they must be disposed of. Perhaps that should also be a factor in our choices of lighting. Actually, I like open woors and windows for light when I can get that.Cadiddlehopper
I live in Denver and use the cheapo Home Depot lights ($8 or so). They dont work worth a hoot and are more frustrating than I want to think about. Of course now that I have read this thread I figured out the temperature issue. The guys at H.D. dont mention that stuff to you. I have bought replacement bulbs till I was blue in the face, when what I really needed to be doing was concentrating on heating my garage better. I am moving up the street in a couple of weeeks and when I get my garage shop set up over there I will absolutely spend the money for better lighting, and heat. It's no fun trying to work in January with a dark and unheated shop. Now, if you live in Palm Springs it probably wont make too much of a difference in the long run.
Woodlark;
I have 850ft shop, four 4x3 windows, it has 6-8ft cold weather fixtures. Light is great and I think it is worth the extra bucks to be able to go out, mid winter, turn on the heat and the lights and not have to be wait until the shop is warm enough for the lights to quit flickering.
Regards,
Jim
Hmmm, 48' of fixture for a shop that seems pretty similar to mine - 850 sq ft. Assuming an 8 footer provides about twice the light of a 4 footer, then maybe my 16 4' fixtures are ample. I think I'll start with them spaced around the shop, and then see if I need to add more.
Maybe you all know this but I'll pass it on anyway. The "T" in fluorescent lamps is a representation lamp size in 1/8". Example T12 is 1 1/2" in diameter.
Jim
T = tube8 = diameter in 1/8" incrementsT8 = 1" tubeT12 = 1.5" tubeAndy"It seemed like a good idea at the time"
Woodlark;
Sorry to be slow on the reply. I have lots of light, and at 53 that's important. My neighbor says I could cut in a skylight and use the light to land airplanes on the interstate nearby.
Regards,
Jim
Hey Woodlark, My electrician talked me into installing 8' high out put fixtures. With 2 lights per unit. Reason being they'll light up in cold weather when the cheap units flicker till they warm up. And on cold days that could take a while. And in the process cause some serious flash backs....( Couldn't resist.)
Any way I'am real pleased with the high out puts and it's worth the extra expense in the long run. And I too could be an air traffic controler.
Edited 3/10/2006 10:06 pm ET by csacoe
I'm only a beginner but I wonder about strip lights with moving machinery. Is it not possible for the strobing effect to make things kook stationary when the are still whizzing arround? Just posing the safety question...
John
" ...Is it not possible for the strobing effect to make things kook stationary...."Yes, to some extent. The high output fixtures in my shop don't produce a discernable stobe effect but the older ones in my previous garage/shop did. Not so much that the rotating item appeared totally stationary as with a proper stobe since the bulbs don't go off and on instantly the way a strobe does. Thus there's cosiderable blurring of the image with the fl. tubes and they're flicker. It's most noticeable on a lathe with variable speed control where you can tweak the speed nob and get the rotation in synch with the lights.
woodlark, If you have any industrial parks in you area you can get in touch with the management company that does the fitout work for new tenants these guys are allways throwing lights out in the trash. they will either give them to you or sell them at a cheap price. Just make sure they are not 277 volt.
This is how I obtained my lights
-Lou
I am using florescent bulbs that screw into a regular light bulb socket. I bought them at Ace Hardware but I have seen them at Home Depot and Lowe's. The ones I am using are equivalent to 100 watt incandescent bulbs. They put out a lot of light without the heat and are fairly cheap. The only complaint is that when they are first turned on in the morning it take about 5 minute before they have their full output of light. They do not flicker like tube florescent bulbs sometimes do.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled