What a waste: I just ruined a new, expensive router bit. It was a template bit that I had mailordered (based on FWW’s review) from Whiteside. It was the first time I used a bit that had ball bearings; suddenly there was the smell of smoke so I shut down the router and inspected the bit. Its bearing had locked up and the metallic gray was now black from the burning wood.
Later, I came across a comment in Wood magazine: “Piloted bits are not for cutting large amounts of wood.” Fine time to be learning this.
I got the bearing unfrozen and lubricated it, but it spins rough, as though there were sand inside. (Now I know how Scottie felt when he said, “My bairns! My poor bairns!”) So the remaining Whiteside bits are going into storage and I will stick ruining el cheapo bits–although I haven’t seen any that could actually be called “inexpensive.”
“Use the right tools for the job” usually goes along with “buy best you can afford.” I’m now of the mind that “right” for beginners is “cheap,” but there are plenty of teachers who insist that only the best will do, that you can’t learn good skills on cheap tools, that cheap tools end up being more expensive, etc. Do I really need a $115 ripcut saw, a $35 chisel, and a beechwood mallet to learn how to make dovetails by hand?
Replies
Bearings can be replaced cheaply. Don't know if the black on your carbide means ruined edge, but that should be easy to determine. Good luck.
What type of bit was it and how much were you removing with one pass? For large bits you should make the cut in several passes. We've all ruined something or another in the shop. Whether it's burning out a motor, ruining a bit, breaking a chisel, or miscutting a piece of wood, all of us have been there. Sounds like you should have checked beforehand how much you could remove in one pass.
Cheap bits made from cheap materials are likely to give you more trouble than you want to deal with. I would read one of the books on routers out there and then go back to the Whiteside ones.
Buying cheap tools won't be cheap in the long run. What are you going to do in a couple of years when your skills have progressed and you realize that better quality blades do make a difference in your cuts and that better chisels use better steel which means they last longer between sharpenings. Then you'll have a bunch of poor quality tools that just upset you because they are sub-par. And then you'll be upset because you have to spend more money because you didn't think long term. In short, yes cheap tools do end up being more expensive when you consider replacement and decreased productivity.
When I started woodworking, I always read as much as I could on a particular subject/problem/question as I could before I actually bought a tool or tried a new method. Woodworking is best learnt hands on, but if you know the ideas behind why you're doing something you have a jump start and are more likely to be successful. Just my thoughts on this subject.
I just tried a piloted, not a bearing, bit for roundover, but because the pilot doesn't spin like a bearing, I burned the edge. So I'm going to buy a bearing bit. I tried to move the bit fast enough to prevent burn, but it wasn't happening. I suppose I could use it for pattern cutting, where pilot doesn't touch the work piece.
I suppose I could use it for pattern cutting, where pilot doesn't touch the work piece.
But what about the second and the twentieth cut? If you're burning the pattern, aren't you changing it's shape/size so that every "copy" will be different?
Cheap tools?
Oh, boy!
Really cheap stuff made out of inferior steel is usually a waste of money.
However, you don't have to go nuts and only buy bronze/rosewood pretty stuff out of the Garret Wade Catologue.
Go to a little junk/antique shop and find an assortment of old chisels. Put new handles on them if you need to, clean them up and regrind and sharpen them. The older the chisel, usually the better the steel. Or you can get some old files or planer blade steel and grind your own set. Find an old plane and tune it up. Look for stuf in the local classifieds. Take 5-10 years and slowly add to your shop in this way.
When buying a tool, ask yourself what particular problem is it going to solve for you.
You will have a lovely set of tools and you will not have spent alot.
No reason to break the budget.
Frank
Matt, I am too embarrassed to reveal how much wood I was trying to remove in one pass! Let's just say that in retrospect, I should have known better.
I am also going to get better safety equipment to protect me from my own mistakes.
DW -
I've used bearing piloted bits quite a bit for trimming plastic laminate, not so much with respect to wood. As was noted, you can replace the bearing quite easily. If the bit itself wasn't affected you're back in business.
Don't use heavy pressure against the bearing, that's one key point. Stop frequently, unplug the router and check that the bearing is running freely. Keep gunk from accumulating on the bearing's outter surface - something that's more relavent in doing laminate work than woodwork I suspect.
I don't know the Whiteside brand at all but the Amana bits I get at my fav' toy st.... I mean tool store last a long time.
The bearings that is.
And yes, you get what you pay for. (g)
Dennis in Bellevue WA
[email protected]
I've had the pleasure of doing bearing load testing on router bits and can attest to the fact that it depends on the diameter of the bearing as to how much life to expect. The 3/8" diameter are the shortest life. The 1/2" last at least 3 times as long. In order to keep costs down most router bit manufacturers source bearings from the most cost effective source (even China). This may sound like "cheaping out" but the bearing is, as noted earlier, easily replaceable and cheap (it's the bit that's the expensive part). And, IME, expensive bearings (i.e US and Japanese) don't have a significantly longer life than the cheap ones of the same size/rating. I suggest you find a replacement bearing (if the bit is undamaged) and keep routing.
Charles M
Freud, Inc.
I haven't had that particular problem with a bearing , but I have had some gum up with pitch from pine and contact cement doing counter top laminate. I use mostly Freud bits and have been pleased with them but their bearings will gum just as fast as anyones. It is the nature of the animal, the bearing is quite small and goes around real fast and there isn't much room for foreign material inside. There are some cleaners on the market to take care of your bits.
Good Luck and God Bless
les
Sometimes cheap works, sometimes it doesn't. For router bits, I got a cheap set of carbide bits early on and got my money's worth out of them. Sure, there are bits I've never used - but it takes experience to know which bits you'll use most and which you won't ever use. And I pretty much ruined the dovetail bit, not knowing how to use it (take out most of the waste with a straight bit first, don't make the dovetail bit do the whole job in one pass). MLCS is cheaper than most and did very well in a comparison FWW did - and they ship for free. Their address is http://www.MLCSWoodworking.com
I did just buy a small Lie-Nielsen block plane, which cost more than my other five planes combined! I don't have enough experience to know whether poor results are because I bought a cheap plane, because I didn't set it up properly (or my incompetent "tuning" made it worse), because my planing technique is poor or because I'm just expecting too much. So the L-N eliminates the other variables and lets me focus on my technique. *Then* maybe I can learn how to get good results out of a cheap plane.
For a tool you know you will use regularly, buy the best you can afford. An inferior or undersized "economy" model will just make you unhappy. For things you aren't sure about (will a biscuit joiner/palm sander/japanese saw/whatever really be worth having?), a cheap one can be worthwhile, as long as you can consider it a throwaway - if and when you decide to upgrade, you'll have a better idea of what you want before spending significant money.
In answer to your last question, you tell me. Try doing dovetails by hand with what you have and try to figure out just where the problems are. Everything at different angles? You need practise sawing. Wood torn out and ragged? Maybe a sharper chisel. Then you decide what tools would help fix the problems.
HTH,
Graeme
Edited 11/18/2002 2:46:24 AM ET by GEESEAWHY
Whiteside is good stuff and they should stand behind their product. Why not give them a call (and at least give them a chance to go good)? Are you sure the bit itself is damaged? I'll bet it's only the bearing.
As to the question of good vs. cheap, I'd have to say it depends on the tool. I bought my #4 Stanley for $15 at a second hand store and wouldn't trade it for a bronze Lie-Nielsen. It's just a great little plane. I have Stanley and Marples chisels that hold an edge nicely and are comfortable to use. What more could I ask for, or why replace them with more expensive chisels? On the other hand, I'll have to say that not too long ago I did myself a favor and threw away some tools. None was considered "good", i.e. expensive; all were cheap and junk.
I own some good hand saws, but they're a real pain to sharpen. I'm often tempted to buy a couple cheap ones and just throw them out when they get dull. If you're wondering what my point is, I guess it's that sometimes we really don't need a great tool to do good work, and sometimes cheap tools are pretty good.
Jeff
I use Amana bits which are in the same class as Whiteside in terms of quality and expense.
My experience is that using el-cheapo bits is far more expensive than using high quality bits, in the long run.
In my current business I use mainly quarter round carbide bits with a guide bearing. I have about 10 of them and each had been resharpened at least 4, maybe 5 times. In the beginning I tried cheap bits but found that I got around 1/5th the use out of then before resharpening was necessary. The 'yellow' bits bought at the big orange barn were worse than that.
By the way, with the resharpening service that I use, I get twice the mileage after resharpening than when the bits are new.
Get a new bearing and wash the Whiteside bit in lacquer thinner. Probably still good as new.
PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy
PlaneWood
instead of ruining cheap tools, a beginners first investment should be in some books and in some courses at a local college. a very important rule is if you don't know what your doing then don't do it (especially with a power tool). you have to be honest with yourself here. this will help you keep your limbs attached to the rest of your body.
even a great forum like this can't replace having a teacher by your side helping you out as you work. once you have learned the basics of woodworking then you'll find that the wealth of woodworking knowledge will make more sense and your skill level will start to increase up to a point where you can work safely by yourself. I really believe that learning how to use handtools is critical to a woodworker. it will give you a better idea of the physics of cutting wood, and later on it will help you become better and more efficient with powertools. I'm not saying that you have to master handtools, just learn how they work before you step up to something with a power cord. there are tremendous benefits from being skilled with both hand and power tools.
now as far as cheap tools go, and this has been said before, they are an endless source of frustration for a beginner. ironically cheap tools are better off in the hands of an expert, as they are the ones capable of tuning up and have the skill necessary to overcome the tools shortfalls.
and yes, cheap tools are ultimately more expensive, because as your skills progress you'll end up upgrading your tools. you've now ended up buying the same tool twice instead of just buying the better quality one to start. you don't always need to buy top of the line though, and one of the skills possessed by a good woodworker is to know when you can and can't skimp. generally buy the best when reliability and accuracy counts, and on the tools you'll use most.
the most important tool in your shop is your brain, and it pays to get a good education in woodworking before you get behind anything with sharp moving parts. even the best tools in the world are useless if you don't know how to use them properly.
In woodworking there is a direct relation between cost and the quality of the tool. However, before spending big piles of money, there is a more cost effective thing to do first.
Find someone who is further ahead in the learning curve than you are. From them you can learn what works and what doesn't. The tools that are worth the money you pay and the others that just icing on the cake. Give them a hand with some of the projects they invariably need a hand with. It doesn't pay very well (if at all) but you get some experience with equipment without having to buy it first.
Some books and magazines are worth buying to get some reviews on equipment and technique. One of the best that comes to mind is the Leonard Lee Sharpening book. It explains not just how to sharpen an edge but also why you sharpen something in a particular way, and how to tweak the edge to suit your habits.
Quality tools are a challenge to find at a good price. I recently bought a table saw from a pawn shop for $325 CAN. I got it mainly because it was a newer version of a saw owned by a friend, so while it does have weaknesses like a poor fence, I knew what they were. I had talked him down from $375 because it was missing the mitre gauge. They also had a nice Stanley Bedrock #603 for $15 that was in good shape but had a dull blade and surface rust. You should keep your eyes open for these things appearing in odd places. Nothing wrong with used equipment or tools.
New tools from some stores are pretty consistent in the relation between cost and quality. Lee Valley here in Canada, Japanese Woodworker in California, Garrett Wade all have an excellent combination of price and quality of tool. Some (Lee Valley esp) have generous return policies so you don't have to be stuck with a tool you don't like, but I have returned only a few of them, like a Stanley adjustable mouth block place with poor machining. That I replaced with the more expensive Veritas version with a ball and rear tote.
As for more expensive power tools, try one out at a show or take a look at one owned by a friend before buying.
Inexpensive isn't bad necessarily. I just bought some Viper bits at a lumber yard that was switching brands. Less than 10$ each. They are working fine. As for the piloted bits. I got one of those (lower BB pilot) and used it on Terrian, a Corian knockoff, to remove the difference between the glued portion of an apron and the top surface.
I'm cautious on the dust that accumulates always, having smoked more than one pilot in the past. I'll even stop mid-cut to clean off the pilot and the surface it is riding on. No problems here on the Terrian. The dust accumulates really fast so you almost always have to stop to wipe the surface off.
The dust is the killer for the bearings. If It was a solid surface material you were working on (even formica) you could lube the surface with WD 40 or some other lubricant to stop the burn. On wood I wouldn't do that.
PS Inexpensive Is my favorite way to buy them. I've broken more carbide bits by dropping them on the concrete than I've ever smoked or used up. Laying them on the bench for later use is how they usually meet their death. The Tool steel bits tend to last longer as they survive a fall better. However the dulling retires them far before an unbroken carbide.
Edited 12/11/2002 12:50:51 PM ET by Booch
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